Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

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drdel

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I know. They should have accepted it. Soriot was CEO then, but, as I said here earlier, overplayed his hand and Pfizer got fed up and walked.
Still bending the facts: the Government of the day stepped in due to competition interests. Enough of a tangent.
 

larmen

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if the current rate of new infections keeps up everyone in the country will have had the virus in four years.
The German health minister (until yesterday, I think. They signed the new coalition contracts, big reshuffle coming) is expecting everyone to have had it this winter. He expressed it a bit more dramatic.

Geimpft, genesen, gestorben.
Translates to vaccinated, recovered or died. Didn’t mention be a group of not vaccinated and having avoided it all along.

It’s a pun on the rules of eventsor public transport in Germany, geimpft, genesen, getestet.

Anyway, it’s herd immunity reached. Luckily mostly by vaccination.
 

Foxholer

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Still bending the facts...
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
...the Government of the day stepped in due to competition interests....
Twaddle!
While there was certainly (understandable) 'interest' by/from the Government at the time - and no doubt plenty of discussion/chatter at 'clubs' - the rejection was 'purely' financial and by AZ. Plenty of articles still around to remind/correct your memory!
 
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Ethan

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Still bending the facts: the Government of the day stepped in due to competition interests. Enough of a tangent.
I think you started the tangent.

On the deal, surely AZ declined the revised Pfizer bid as not having increased enough. The UK Govt had not formally intervened and would have needed to use EU law to do so.
 

PNWokingham

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I know. They should have accepted it. Soriot was CEO then, but, as I said here earlier, overplayed his hand and Pfizer got fed up and walked.
and very glad they failed as they would have likely stripped out growth form the UK market in the pharma area rather than the significant investment that has occured - new £1 billion cambridge campus opening right now for example. And it leaves one of the top UK companies as a UK company. But more importantly, AZ shares were undervalued in the bid and Soiret has delivered brilliant returns for the investors and fund managers that backed him. The shares have roughly doubled since the bid and that return is reflected in pension funds of UK people rather than losing one of the footsies best performers. Pfizer shares in mid 2020 - before the massive covid boost - were trading flat to when they made the bid in Q2 2014 - and put that into even more context - the FTSE 100 is about 10% higher in the last 7.5 years - the S&P 500 is up near 140%.

So not quite sure how he overplayed his hand!
 

Ethan

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and very glad they failed as they would have likely stripped out growth form the UK market in the pharma area rather than the significant investment that has occured - new £1 billion cambridge campus opening right now for example. And it leaves one of the top UK companies as a UK company. But more importantly, AZ shares were undervalued in the bid and Soiret has delivered brilliant returns for the investors and fund managers that backed him. The shares have roughly doubled since the bid and that return is reflected in pension funds of UK people rather than losing one of the footsies best performers. Pfizer shares in mid 2020 - before the massive covid boost - were trading flat to when they made the bid in Q2 2014 - and put that into even more context - the FTSE 100 is about 10% higher in the last 7.5 years - the S&P 500 is up near 140%.

So not quite sure how he overplayed his hand!
Because he had been charged by his Board to get a big deal and a deal with Pfizer was considered a very big one indeed. AZ shares were valued by Pfizer at 45% over the value right before Pfizer expressed an interest, and as the deal was essentially a tax inversion deal, it should have brought more Pfizer activity to the UK. AZ is a Swedish-UK company (in same order as the constituent names). The US remains their biggest market, so access there via Pfizer's monstrous marketing machine could have driven sales quite strongly and would have benefitted the bottom line in the UK.

Yahoo tells me that PFE share price in April 2014, when the AZ bid was made was in the area (depending on date) of $28. It is $50.89 now. I see you have fished around for the recent low point for your comparison. On the same day as that low PFE price, AZ share price was also at a recent low, £6.316, now £8.551. I am not sure you can make much of an argument out of that.

Soriot has made big pronouncements and predictions before, and on the Covid vaccine a few of them, mostly on timelines and supply, dramatically failed to materialise.

AZ is a great company in some areas, oncology, for example, but was not a major vaccine developer or maker. They have done well in recent years, much of that based on long-standing development projects. Some of the acquisitions and licensing deals done in recent years have yet to play out, because there is a long lead time, but they may be great.
 

PNWokingham

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Because he had been charged by his Board to get a big deal and a deal with Pfizer was considered a very big one indeed. AZ shares were valued by Pfizer at 45% over the value right before Pfizer expressed an interest, and as the deal was essentially a tax inversion deal, it should have brought more Pfizer activity to the UK. AZ is a Swedish-UK company (in same order as the constituent names). The US remains their biggest market, so access there via Pfizer's monstrous marketing machine could have driven sales quite strongly and would have benefitted the bottom line in the UK.

Yahoo tells me that PFE share price in April 2014, when the AZ bid was made was in the area (depending on date) of $28. It is $50.89 now. I see you have fished around for the recent low point for your comparison. On the same day as that low PFE price, AZ share price was also at a recent low, £6.316, now £8.551. I am not sure you can make much of an argument out of that.

Soriot has made big pronouncements and predictions before, and on the Covid vaccine a few of them, mostly on timelines and supply, dramatically failed to materialise.

AZ is a great company in some areas, oncology, for example, but was not a major vaccine developer or maker. They have done well in recent years, much of that based on long-standing development projects. Some of the acquisitions and licensing deals done in recent years have yet to play out, because there is a long lead time, but they may be great.
i took mmid 2020 for Pfizer as they have obviously made tens of billions from covid - but even looking at the share price now - $50, compared to when they bid in 2014 of around $30, they will have still underperfromed Astra. And it was nice to see the bid rejected and another British (Anglo-Swiss. Yes. More British than Swiss if you count it has its global headquarters in the uk and Zenecca shareholders had 53.5% of the merged comapny and its primary listing is on the LSE and it is a PLC - a public company under UK law) company remain headquarterd, part of the local indices and a global success story. If you compare AZ share price before the bid interst then they would be 200%+ up. It just shows how undervalued they were and that they had a great deal in the pipeline, that they have delivered on that and that they remain British and that investors saw through the quick buck to be made and focused on the long-term value. And all of our pension savings have benefitted from that.
 
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Ethan

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i took mmid 2020 for Pfizer as they have obviously made tens of billions from covid - but even looking at the share price now - $50, compared to when they bid in 2014 of around $30, they will have still underperfromed Astra. And it was nice to see the bid rejected and another British (Anglo-Swiss. Yes. More British than Swiss if you count it has its global headquarters in the uk and Zenecca shareholders had 53.5% of the merged comapny and its primary listing is on the LSE and it is a PLC - a public company under UK law) company remain headquarterd, part of the local indices and a global success story. If you compare AZ share price before the bid interst then they would be 200%+ up. It just shows how undervalued they were and that they had a great deal in the pipeline, that they have delivered on that and that they remain British and that investors saw through the quick buck to be made and focused on the long-term value. And all of our pension savings have benefitted from that.
Cool. It is kinda cute the way you cling to the nationalistic issue. In reality, AZ are a multinational global company. So are GSK. Your pension pot should be benefitting from global companies. Mine does. Keep watching those share prices. Hope you noticed those which fell due to Brexit-related harm too.
 

PNWokingham

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Cool. It is kinda cute the way you cling to the nationalistic issue. In reality, AZ are a multinational global company. So are GSK. Your pension pot should be benefitting from global companies. Mine does. Keep watching those share prices. Hope you noticed those which fell due to Brexit-related harm too.
it's kinda cute you seem to take the un-nationalistic approach on most issues - and you brought up brexit just now - that was nothing to do what i was talking about. But hey-ho, any chance for a dig and to link something spurious back to that event (one that i voted against FWIW) or government policies. And the fact is that having Astra as a UK company has benefitted our pensions AND has clearly been proven to be a smart move by not accepting Pfizer's bid for anyone holding the shares. Most UK pensions are much more biased to UK than global and more investors are likely to choose UK funds than global (much more so when you weight the capitalisation of the UK market in global terms - it is less than 5% and most people have way more than that as a % in uk invested assets), and mom and pop etc are much more likely to have some money in a UK listed company than a US listed alternative - so the more breadth of "local" options the better
 

AmandaJR

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Shopping at Lidl today and mask wearing at an all time low. I'd say 10% and most of those seem to have forgotten all about social distancing as they reached over people whilst chatting away to their shopping buddy. I just got madder and madder. It's like this pandemic hasn't happened and isn't happening - idiots.

The upside of a mask is I can mouth all sorts of obscenities in their direction and not get into a Lidl scrap!
 

SaintHacker

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My friend is still hanging in there, just. Speaking to his daughter today it turns out no one medical thought to tell him his vaccines would be far less effective as he is on immunosupressants. Had he known chances are he would have been far more careful:cry:
 

HomerJSimpson

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Shopping at Lidl today and mask wearing at an all time low. I'd say 10% and most of those seem to have forgotten all about social distancing as they reached over people whilst chatting away to their shopping buddy. I just got madder and madder. It's like this pandemic hasn't happened and isn't happening - idiots.

The upside of a mask is I can mouth all sorts of obscenities in their direction and not get into a Lidl scrap!
Same on the train home each day. The one I get is full of school kids (one of the highest spreaders at the moment and loads of kids at HID's school testing positive). I could get a bus home but again full of kids so not taking that risk. I keep my mask on during the train journey and now sitting in a carriage further away from the barriers where less people congregate
 
Thread starter #22,233

drdel

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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Twaddle!
While there was certainly (understandable) 'interest' by/from the Government at the time - and no doubt plenty of discussion/chatter at 'clubs' - the rejection was 'purely' financial and by AZ. Plenty of articles still around to remind/correct your memory!
I fail to see why you need to be childishly rude when you make your prouncements, comments which are after all just opinions.
 

Ethan

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it's kinda cute you seem to take the un-nationalistic approach on most issues - and you brought up brexit just now - that was nothing to do what i was talking about. But hey-ho, any chance for a dig and to link something spurious back to that event (one that i voted against FWIW) or government policies. And the fact is that having Astra as a UK company has benefitted our pensions AND has clearly been proven to be a smart move by not accepting Pfizer's bid for anyone holding the shares. Most UK pensions are much more biased to UK than global and more investors are likely to choose UK funds than global (much more so when you weight the capitalisation of the UK market in global terms - it is less than 5% and most people have way more than that as a % in uk invested assets), and mom and pop etc are much more likely to have some money in a UK listed company than a US listed alternative - so the more breadth of "local" options the better
You seem concerned in long term economic effects that impinge on your pension. I do agree that I am not blinded by reflexive nationalism.

You have no idea how Pfizer-Astra would have done as a UK tax-domiciled company, it would have dominated oncology research and sales, or how much extra tax revenues as discussed here it would have brought to the UK. Any I suspect that more UK investment houses would have invested in it and it may have sought a listing in London.

But hey-ho, any chance for some flag-waving.

Shall we agree this exchange has run its course?
 

PhilTheFragger

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You seem concerned in long term economic effects that impinge on your pension. I do agree that I am not blinded by reflexive nationalism.

You have no idea how Pfizer-Astra would have done as a UK tax-domiciled company, it would have dominated oncology research and sales, or how much extra tax revenues as discussed here it would have brought to the UK. Any I suspect that more UK investment houses would have invested in it and it may have sought a listing in London.

But hey-ho, any chance for some flag-waving.

Shall we agree this exchange has run its course?

I think that is a good suggestion 👍
 

Ethan

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Not good at all. This is what happens when you have a partly vaccinated population but a decent rump of the unvaccinated. The vaccinated portion means the virus's evolution has to up its game, but the unvaccinated portion means it is extra potent.

But if a variant that is resistant to existing vaccines comes along, we are screwed and back to square one.
 

SocketRocket

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Not good at all. This is what happens when you have a partly vaccinated population but a decent rump of the unvaccinated. The vaccinated portion means the virus's evolution has to up its game, but the unvaccinated portion means it is extra potent.

But if a variant that is resistant to existing vaccines comes along, we are screwed and back to square one.
This is probably over simplistic but I can remember Polio vaccinations (If that's the correct description) were given to children on a lump of sugar, it would be great if Covid boosters could be given this way.
 

ColchesterFC

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Not good at all. This is what happens when you have a partly vaccinated population but a decent rump of the unvaccinated. The vaccinated portion means the virus's evolution has to up its game, but the unvaccinated portion means it is extra potent.

But if a variant that is resistant to existing vaccines comes along, we are screwed and back to square one.
Is it actually that bad though Ethan? From a completely non-medical view point the fact that one of the quotes in the article is "There is a lot of speculation, but very few clear answers" seems to suggest that they don't yet know if this is going to be bad or not. Is it possible that it is highly mutated and could be far more transmissible and evade the vaccines, so that far more people get it, but be far less deadly and only give mild symptoms to those that do get it?
 
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