Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

Billysboots

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What individuals do is up to their own conscience and what they can get away with. I would say most people would observe restrictions.

I can't forsee the future, new variations of Covid, better vaccinations etc are not in my gift to understand.
I genuinely don’t think that’s the case. Whilst, quite clearly, I cannot speak for all, the consensus amongst those I have discussed this with is that they will not observe any further lockdown, as to do so would make the pain of the periodic restrictions of the last eighteen months, and the whole vaccination program, pointless exercises. In short, they’ve had enough.

That’s not to say that many individuals will not continue to take personal responsibility with measures tailored to their circumstances and those of loved ones. Merely that they won’t follow further lockdowns.
 
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SocketRocket

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I genuinely don’t think that’s the case. Whilst, quite clearly, I cannot speak for all, the consensus amongst those I have discussed this with is that they will not observe any further lockdown, as to do so would make the pain of the periodic restrictions of the last eighteen months, and the whole vaccination program, pointless exercises. In short, they’ve had enough.

That’s not to say that many individuals will not continue to take personal responsibility with measures tailored to their circumstances and those of loved ones. Merely that they won’t follow further lockdowns.
I have suggested some small to moderate restrictions that make little difference to most people, not total lockdown. I think if we did this now we just may be able to stop things getting to a point where it could start to become very different to what we are seeing at the moment. People say things but when it comes to the crunch they often do what they are asked. You just have to look at what happens in other countries, I had a discussion with my cousin in New Zealand a few days ago, they are in total lockdown again after a small increase in infections, also look at what Hobbit tells us about Spain. I honestly think the vast majority will do what is asked of them. Your experience in the Police must have shown you that most British people will obey the law.
 

Swinglowandslow

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Yes, I do think there will be one. Infections are rising again along with hospitalisations and deaths, we know it will get worse in the winter and shortly when schools and Unis go back. Vaccinations do help to reduce serious illness but it's proportional, they don't stop people getting infected and many becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths. If infections fall along with the associated health problems then I will hold up my hands and say I was wrong. Time will tell but I would be much happier with mandatory mask wearing in shops, public transport and places where high infection risks are prevalent.
You and Ethan are cherry picking when you say you didn't intend To refer to nightclubs, theatres etc.
How do you answer those who ask why they should be breaking the law not wearing a mask in a shop when others can crowd into nightclubs and theatres without masks and not be breaking the law.?
The latter venues are by their nature better "breeding grounds" for passing on the virus than any shop.
It is and always has been difficult asking people to abide by the law when there is no enforcement option, but we are now in an age -social media etc-
where it is easy to organise numbers to break the law together We've seen it happen, and in relation to Covid especially.
The real answer is to disadvantage the vaccine refusers.And publicise more the benefits of being vaccinated .
 
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D-S

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I have suggested some small to moderate restrictions that make little difference to most people, not total lockdown. I think if we did this now we just may be able to stop things getting to a point where it could start to become very different to what we are seeing at the moment. People say things but when it comes to the crunch they often do what they are asked. You just have to look at what happens in other countries, I had a discussion with my cousin in New Zealand a few days ago, they are in total lockdown again after a small increase in infections, also look at what Hobbit tells us about Spain. I honestly think the vast majority will do what is asked of them. Your experience in the Police must have shown you that most British people will obey the law.
I think it is difficult to judge entire countries on anecdotal evidence e.g. what Hobbit says re his part of Spain is undoubtedgy true, nevertheless lthey have recorded 240 deaths in the last two days of reporting, so it seems as if at least some are not being as law abiding as those near Hobbit. If my regular shopping experiences in Waitrose Chipping Sodbury or any of the shops near here are anything to go by, mask wearing in shops in England is nearly 100% - patently this is untrue for the rest of the country. There are more mask wearing strictures in Scotland yet this is not shown in recorded cases. I think we need to simply promote, encourage, nudge, coerce more folk to get jabbed and to keep on pushing the ‘common sense‘ message as more and more guidelines/laws may be counter productive at this stage.
 

Swinglowandslow

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I think it is hard to call what will happen. Cases will rise, with schools and colleges back and more indoor stuff as weather declines, so the risk will increase a fair bit. Mask wearing is dropping off fast. But vaccination of 16 and 17 year olds, and presumably 12 to 15 year olds (even with only moderate take-up) will continue to constrain case numbers. I am not convinced about boosters that do not include updates for delta. Cases have been driven by unvaccinated lately, so reducing that risk pool will clearly help. The main wild card is if immunity falls off among the vaccinated. I think the story here is more complicated than presented in the media recently, because the period over which that has been studied has included changes in environmental risk and lockdown too, so a few moving parts.

So the question is how big that rise in cases is, and how well that is tolerated by the Govt. NHS winter pressures are a large factor too. The Govt hate the idea of being seen to reverse course, so will resist any steps, which will, ironically, make matters worse and possibly force greater ultimate action than would have been needed with earlier intervention. Unfortunately because a lot of different measures were all abandoned at the same time, we don't know which ones work better than the others, and there're which limited measures are most effective.

Another wildcard is more variants. If variant epsilon (next after delta) appears and it is a bad'un, resistant to vaccination, all bets are off.
I thought that in past discussions here , and amongst the medical profession , that there was not too big a worry about future variants being able to 'ignore' vaccines!
As for infections, it has also been recognised by science that the double jabbed who also get Covid have a better immunity than the double jabbed alone.
Not all of course. Some unfortunately get a different result so Im not saying it is a thing to be desired, but the majority come through it seems, and the immunity level is accepted as true.
This begs the question as to how many of those daily figures re serious illness and death are double jabbed, and how many are unvaccinated.
Those figures are not prominent it seems.
Some say boosters are beneficial. You, Ethan, believe otherwise, which suggests that you think the vaccines are pretty darn good (enough)- but then you express concern re variants🤔

If folks want more official action -Time to get tough re vaccines.
 

Hobbit

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2nd jab day, at last.

Saw a rare beast on Saturday, probably a first. Someone in the supermarket without a mask on. Arrived at a till with a half full trolley. Refused service. Tried several tills, all refused service.

Ref a couple of comments about what the mask uptake is like here. Lads night out a couple of weeks back. No mask, no entry into bars. Anyone getting up from a table without a mask was soon told to mask up. Barman wouldn’t take an order from someone not wearing a mask. Not 100% compliance but not far off.

Visited Almeria city last week. Pleasantly surprised on the percentage of mask wearers, even outside where there is some relaxation. Clips of Madrid and Barcelona on the news suggest northern Spain is a little more lax.
 

bobmac

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Vaccinations do help to reduce serious illness but it's proportional, they don't stop people getting infected and many becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths.
Are there really many double jabbed dying from Covid?
I'd need to see figures on that please, if you have a link?
 

Hobbit

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Are there really many double jabbed dying from Covid?
I'd need to see figures on that please, if you have a link?
According to Sir Patrick Vallance, 40% of those catching Covid have had at least 1 jab, 15% having had 2. The big difference is the severity.
 

Ethan

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I thought that in past discussions here , and amongst the medical profession , that there was not too big a worry about future variants being able to 'ignore' vaccines!
As for infections, it has also been recognised by science that the double jabbed who also get Covid have a better immunity than the double jabbed alone.
Not all of course. Some unfortunately get a different result so Im not saying it is a thing to be desired, but the majority come through it seems, and the immunity level is accepted as true.
This begs the question as to how many of those daily figures re serious illness and death are double jabbed, and how many are unvaccinated.
Those figures are not prominent it seems.
Some say boosters are beneficial. You, Ethan, believe otherwise, which suggests that you think the vaccines are pretty darn good (enough)- but then you express concern re variants🤔

If folks want more official action -Time to get tough re vaccines.
The variant concern is one not necessarily of enormous likelihood, but of enormous implications, although as the cases rumble on and grow, the likelihood increases. It is true that vax plus infection is better than vax alone, so long as you don't die or suffer permanent damage.

I believe, although I like to think I rely on data than matters of faith, that vax are very good, but not perfect, and keeping hygiene measures in place until we got better penetration of the population with vax would have been prudent. The evidence for boosters is based partly on antibody fall off, but we know that immune memory kicks in, as it does for other antibodies that also fall off but still confer more or less lifelong immunity, and the other evidence cited, changes in risk 6 months after vax is confounded by external changes in behaviour and exposure, which could explain the change in risk. It is also clear that the Govt want to use boosters to bring more people into for flu vax, fearing a winter pressures double whammy. The word from those who know say that this year the flu vax, never a great product, may be worse than usual. However, if the Covid booster carried an upgrade for delta, I would be at the front of the queue.
 

bobmac

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Ethan

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I was under the impression that having both jabs protected most people from serious illness, hospitalisation and death.
'It is very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die'
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection


SR seems to suggest that is now not the case.
This may be down to the vaccine not protecting us from the Delta variant and if that's the case I'd like to know
No, that impression is still correct. The risk of hospitalisation/death is reduced by about 90% compared to unvacc'd. But the risk is not zero, and older people (although not those who can still use a 1-iron, probably, are still vulnerable to admission caused by a reduced strength illness, one that may have ended them if unvac'd. Protection against delta is less than against alpha, but still decent and well worth having.
 

Swinglowandslow

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I was under the impression that having both jabs protected most people from serious illness, hospitalisation and death.
'It is very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die'
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection


SR seems to suggest that is now not the case.
This may be down to the vaccine not protecting us from the Delta variant and if that's the case I'd like to know
I think you are right - that the vast majority of double jabbed avoid serious illness and death. But like you, I'd like to know the figures.
Not that it proves anything, but a couple of people I know, elderly and in not good health have had Covid recently since being double jabbed.
No hospital etc and both recovered as if a case of flu.
One is joking that he is now more immune than we are😀
 

Ethan

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I think you are right - that the vast majority of double jabbed avoid serious illness and death. But like you, I'd like to know the figures.
Not that it proves anything, but a couple of people I know, elderly and in not good health have had Covid recently since being double jabbed.
No hospital etc and both recovered as if a case of flu.
One is joking that he is now more immune than we are😀
It is very possible that had those elderly people not been vac'd, they would have had a much worse course.
 
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SocketRocket

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I was under the impression that having both jabs protected most people from serious illness, hospitalisation and death.
'It is very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die'
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection


SR seems to suggest that is now not the case.
This may be down to the vaccine not protecting us from the Delta variant and if that's the case I'd like to know
Did I really suggest that?
 

SocketRocket

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Did you not suggest that many were becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths?
I suggested hospitalisations and deaths had increased with rises in infections and unless we change something it will get worse over the winter. Do you disagree with that?
 

bobmac

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I suggested hospitalisations and deaths had increased with rises in infections and unless we change something it will get worse over the winter. Do you disagree with that?
You said vaccinations don't stop people getting infected and many are becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths.

The WHO says that it's very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die.

I asked if the Delta variant had changed things
 

Swinglowandslow

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It is very possible that had those elderly people not been vac'd, they would have had a much worse course.
Undoubtedly,! Mutual friends were concerned about him when hearing he had caught Covid. His general health is not good.
His wife has said she reckons she would have gone without the jabs.
 
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