I think it is difficult to judge entire countries on anecdotal evidence e.g. what Hobbit says re his part of Spain is undoubtedgy true, nevertheless lthey have recorded 240 deaths in the last two days of reporting, so it seems as if at least some are not being as law abiding as those near Hobbit. If my regular shopping experiences in Waitrose Chipping Sodbury or any of the shops near here are anything to go by, mask wearing in shops in England is nearly 100% - patently this is untrue for the rest of the country. There are more mask wearing strictures in Scotland yet this is not shown in recorded cases. I think we need to simply promote, encourage, nudge, coerce more folk to get jabbed and to keep on pushing the ‘common sense‘ message as more and more guidelines/laws may be counter productive at this stage.
Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?
- Thread starter drdel
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I thought that in past discussions here , and amongst the medical profession , that there was not too big a worry about future variants being able to 'ignore' vaccines!
As for infections, it has also been recognised by science that the double jabbed who also get Covid have a better immunity than the double jabbed alone.
Not all of course. Some unfortunately get a different result so Im not saying it is a thing to be desired, but the majority come through it seems, and the immunity level is accepted as true.
This begs the question as to how many of those daily figures re serious illness and death are double jabbed, and how many are unvaccinated.
Those figures are not prominent it seems.
Some say boosters are beneficial. You, Ethan, believe otherwise, which suggests that you think the vaccines are pretty darn good (enough)- but then you express concern re variants🤔
If folks want more official action -Time to get tough re vaccines.
As for infections, it has also been recognised by science that the double jabbed who also get Covid have a better immunity than the double jabbed alone.
Not all of course. Some unfortunately get a different result so Im not saying it is a thing to be desired, but the majority come through it seems, and the immunity level is accepted as true.
This begs the question as to how many of those daily figures re serious illness and death are double jabbed, and how many are unvaccinated.
Those figures are not prominent it seems.
Some say boosters are beneficial. You, Ethan, believe otherwise, which suggests that you think the vaccines are pretty darn good (enough)- but then you express concern re variants🤔
If folks want more official action -Time to get tough re vaccines.
2nd jab day, at last.
Saw a rare beast on Saturday, probably a first. Someone in the supermarket without a mask on. Arrived at a till with a half full trolley. Refused service. Tried several tills, all refused service.
Ref a couple of comments about what the mask uptake is like here. Lads night out a couple of weeks back. No mask, no entry into bars. Anyone getting up from a table without a mask was soon told to mask up. Barman wouldn’t take an order from someone not wearing a mask. Not 100% compliance but not far off.
Visited Almeria city last week. Pleasantly surprised on the percentage of mask wearers, even outside where there is some relaxation. Clips of Madrid and Barcelona on the news suggest northern Spain is a little more lax.
Saw a rare beast on Saturday, probably a first. Someone in the supermarket without a mask on. Arrived at a till with a half full trolley. Refused service. Tried several tills, all refused service.
Ref a couple of comments about what the mask uptake is like here. Lads night out a couple of weeks back. No mask, no entry into bars. Anyone getting up from a table without a mask was soon told to mask up. Barman wouldn’t take an order from someone not wearing a mask. Not 100% compliance but not far off.
Visited Almeria city last week. Pleasantly surprised on the percentage of mask wearers, even outside where there is some relaxation. Clips of Madrid and Barcelona on the news suggest northern Spain is a little more lax.
Are there really many double jabbed dying from Covid?
I'd need to see figures on that please, if you have a link?
I'd need to see figures on that please, if you have a link?
👆 a good question, ought to maybe be easier to find this. Think PHE did release some data in June and this fella has written some stuff offering interpretations - often needed with stats
https://theconversation.com/most-co...ated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/2...ated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/
https://theconversation.com/most-co...ated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/2...ated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/
The variant concern is one not necessarily of enormous likelihood, but of enormous implications, although as the cases rumble on and grow, the likelihood increases. It is true that vax plus infection is better than vax alone, so long as you don't die or suffer permanent damage.
I believe, although I like to think I rely on data than matters of faith, that vax are very good, but not perfect, and keeping hygiene measures in place until we got better penetration of the population with vax would have been prudent. The evidence for boosters is based partly on antibody fall off, but we know that immune memory kicks in, as it does for other antibodies that also fall off but still confer more or less lifelong immunity, and the other evidence cited, changes in risk 6 months after vax is confounded by external changes in behaviour and exposure, which could explain the change in risk. It is also clear that the Govt want to use boosters to bring more people into for flu vax, fearing a winter pressures double whammy. The word from those who know say that this year the flu vax, never a great product, may be worse than usual. However, if the Covid booster carried an upgrade for delta, I would be at the front of the queue.
I believe, although I like to think I rely on data than matters of faith, that vax are very good, but not perfect, and keeping hygiene measures in place until we got better penetration of the population with vax would have been prudent. The evidence for boosters is based partly on antibody fall off, but we know that immune memory kicks in, as it does for other antibodies that also fall off but still confer more or less lifelong immunity, and the other evidence cited, changes in risk 6 months after vax is confounded by external changes in behaviour and exposure, which could explain the change in risk. It is also clear that the Govt want to use boosters to bring more people into for flu vax, fearing a winter pressures double whammy. The word from those who know say that this year the flu vax, never a great product, may be worse than usual. However, if the Covid booster carried an upgrade for delta, I would be at the front of the queue.
I was under the impression that having both jabs protected most people from serious illness, hospitalisation and death.
'It is very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die'
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection
SR seems to suggest that is now not the case.
This may be down to the vaccine not protecting us from the Delta variant and if that's the case I'd like to know
'It is very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die'
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection
SR seems to suggest that is now not the case.
This may be down to the vaccine not protecting us from the Delta variant and if that's the case I'd like to know
No, that impression is still correct. The risk of hospitalisation/death is reduced by about 90% compared to unvacc'd. But the risk is not zero, and older people (although not those who can still use a 1-iron, probably, are still vulnerable to admission caused by a reduced strength illness, one that may have ended them if unvac'd. Protection against delta is less than against alpha, but still decent and well worth having.
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I think you are right - that the vast majority of double jabbed avoid serious illness and death. But like you, I'd like to know the figures.
Not that it proves anything, but a couple of people I know, elderly and in not good health have had Covid recently since being double jabbed.
No hospital etc and both recovered as if a case of flu.
One is joking that he is now more immune than we are😀
Not that it proves anything, but a couple of people I know, elderly and in not good health have had Covid recently since being double jabbed.
No hospital etc and both recovered as if a case of flu.
One is joking that he is now more immune than we are😀
It is very possible that had those elderly people not been vac'd, they would have had a much worse course.
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Out in Chepstow yesterday. Indoors everyone masked, outside mostly not.
People want to get on with it. I think the focus is shifting to hospitalisation stats, not infection numbers
People want to get on with it. I think the focus is shifting to hospitalisation stats, not infection numbers
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Did I really suggest that?
Did you not suggest that many were becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths?
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I suggested hospitalisations and deaths had increased with rises in infections and unless we change something it will get worse over the winter. Do you disagree with that?
You said vaccinations don't stop people getting infected and many are becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths.
The WHO says that it's very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die.
I asked if the Delta variant had changed things
The WHO says that it's very rare for someone vaccinated to experience severe illness or die.
I asked if the Delta variant had changed things
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Undoubtedly,! Mutual friends were concerned about him when hearing he had caught Covid. His general health is not good.
His wife has said she reckons she would have gone without the jabs.
His wife has said she reckons she would have gone without the jabs.
A lot of people see any admission of a vaccinated person with Covid as evidence of the uselessness of vaccination. It is a major misunderstanding. The common cold can tip an elderly person over into an admission.
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The underlying question in these exchanges with Bobmac is if you think the rise in hospitalisations and deaths are involving to any significant effect those who have been double jabbed.
IF it does, then yes we have a problem.
But I think most have the belief that that is not the case. Hence the less concern.
Unless there is something not readily apparent then there is a remedy, and it lies in the hands of the non vaxxed individuals.
The other remedy is another lockdown but many don't see why they should put up with that. Nor do I .
The infection rate is not a serious threat if the vaccines are doing their job, as I believe they are
IF it does, then yes we have a problem.
But I think most have the belief that that is not the case. Hence the less concern.
Unless there is something not readily apparent then there is a remedy, and it lies in the hands of the non vaxxed individuals.
The other remedy is another lockdown but many don't see why they should put up with that. Nor do I .
The infection rate is not a serious threat if the vaccines are doing their job, as I believe they are
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I have not suggested we have another lockdown, unless my suggestion of wearing masks on public transport and in shops is considered a lockdown.