Conforming Club?

[Region3]

Is it legal to take a fitting cart version of a club out in competition if I don't change anything about it during the round?

I don't suppose club manufacturers submit fitting cart versions for approval, but the standard version is obviously approved.

Thanks.

 

[delc]

Is it legal to take a fitting cart version of a club out in competition if I don't change anything about it during the round?

I don't suppose club manufacturers submit fitting cart versions for approval, but the standard version is obviously approved.

Thanks.

I would think so, provided that they are conforming and you don't adjust them in anyway during the round. Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to use adjustable drivers.

 

[DCB]

Not convinced, some of the manufacturers seem to have a different attachment method between clubbed and shaft on their demo kit than is standard on the retail version.

 

[BTatHome]

Probably specific to each manufacturer, as certainly the Ping fitting cart version from a couple for years ago were quite different to the retail version (and hence wouldn't have been the approved version)

 

[delc]

Not convinced, some of the manufacturers seem to have a different attachment method between clubbed and shaft on their demo kit than is standard on the retail version.

The shafts in the fitting cart clubs are generally fixed in place with a screw at the bottom (same as many adjustable drivers), but production clubs are generally glued together with two-pack adhesive. As long as the parts can't work loose or be easily adjusted without a special tool, I still can't see any problem.

 

[Imurg]

It's possible that a fitting club may not conform simply because it hasn't been put forward form testing.
Manufacturers will send versions of the retail club for compliance testing, if the fitting club differs from the retail version - and how the shaft is fixed may, only may, be enough - then it may not have been tested and therefore won't conform.
I suspect the vast majority of fitting clubs do conform but its not something I'd take for granted.

 

[delc]

It's possible that a fitting club may not conform simply because it hasn't been put forward form testing.
Manufacturers will send versions of the retail club for compliance testing, if the fitting club differs from the retail version - and how the shaft is fixed may, only may, be enough - then it may not have been tested and therefore won't conform.
I suspect the vast majority of fitting clubs do conform but its not something I'd take for granted.

I believe that conformity only relates to things like the general shape of the club head, the depth and shape of the groves, and the straightness and symmetry of the shaft. These are unlike to be significantly different in fitting cart clubs. There is also a requirement that all constituent components are firmly fixed together and unlikely to work loose in normal use, or to be easily adjusted without special tools, which I would think would apply to most trial clubs.

 

[Imurg]

The point is that the fitting club may be adjustable but the retail club glued.
As such only the glued, retail version may have been presented to the R&A for conformity testing.
If the adjustable, fitting club hasn't been tested for conformity it can't conform....

 

[garyinderry]

If I had the ways and means of making my own golf club in my garage. Would I have to have it passed by the r&a before using it in a comp?

 

[Imurg]

If I had the ways and means of making my own golf club in my garage. Would I have to have it passed by the r&a before using it in a comp?

I would think so, yes.

 

[delc]

The point is that the fitting club may be adjustable but the retail club glued.
As such only the glued, retail version may have been presented to the R&A for conformity testing.
If the adjustable, fitting club hasn't been tested for conformity it can't conform....

Normally cart fitting clubs allow you to try out a number of shaft types and lie angles, before you commit to buying a set. I am curious to know why the OP asked the question? :mmm:

 

[Region3]

I am curious to know why the OP asked the question? :mmm:

Because I'd like to try a club on course that our pro has a borrowed fitting cart version of.

Normally Sunday's are just a knockabout but tomorrow is a comp, and the kit has to go back midweek.


My initial thoughts were the same as imurg in that the club as is hasn't been passed by the R&A, but the more I think about it the more I'm seeing it from Del's point of view in that the head has been passed, albeit with a slightly different hosel.

 

[Imurg]

My initial thoughts were the same as imurg in that the club as is hasn't been passed by the R&A, but the more I think about it the more I'm seeing it from Del's point of view in that the head has been passed, albeit with a slightly different hosel.

That's my concern - a slightly different hosel, technically, makes it a different club.

 

[Region3]

That's my concern - a slightly different hosel, technically, makes it a different club.

But does it? Where do you draw the line?

A different ferrule, different glue?
If it makes the weight different you're allowed to do that without approval.

The hosel is actually the same as their retail adjustable driver so the hosel has been passed on another club.

I might just go for it. I can guarantee it won't be the worst rule break in the comp, and it's a stableford so I have no chance anyway

 

[doublebogey7]

I would think so, yes.

I can find nothing in the rules that suggests this is the case, can you point me in the right direction.

 

[Imurg]

Well, The Preamble to Rule 4 states a Manufacturer should submit a sample for testing .
If they don't they accept the responsibility of the club subsequently being deemed non- conforming.
So , no, you don't have to...But...

How do you know that your homemade club conforms to all the technical specification rules that exist? Are the grooves the correct depth? In the case of a driver, does the CoR exceed 0.83? Or the head exceed 460cc..?
And those are the obvious ones....

Clubs are covered by Rules - if you're 100% sure your club conforms then fire away.
But why do you think ALL the manufacturers send samples of ALL their clubs for testing..?

 

[doublebogey7]

Well, The Preamble to Rule 4 states a Manufacturer should submit a sample for testing .
If they don't they accept the responsibility of the club subsequently being deemed non- conforming.
So , no, you don't have to...But...

How do you know that your homemade club conforms to all the technical specification rules that exist? Are the grooves the correct depth? In the case of a driver, does the CoR exceed 0.83? Or the head exceed 460cc..?
And those are the obvious ones....

Clubs are covered by Rules - if you're 100% sure your club conforms then fire away.
But why do you think ALL the manufacturers send samples of ALL their clubs for testing..?

Because they don't wish to invest in the manufactoring process for any given club and then run the risk of it not selling due to it later to be found as non conforming. This does not apply to an individual who produces a club in his shed.

 

[Imurg]

But, to use it in Competition, it still has to conform to the rules does it not?
How do you know that it conforms if it hasn't been tested..?

 

[doublebogey7]

But, to use it in Competition, it still has to conform to the rules does it not?
How do you know that it conforms if it hasn't been tested..?

It does and you don't for sure but it would be up to the committee to test a club to determine whether or not it was conforming, it is not up to the player.

The R&A publish a list of conforming balls and driver heads. A club may have a condition of competetion that balls/drivers heads used in competition appear on the R&A's list.

No such list exists for any other piece of equipment so how do we ever know if a club is conforming or not.

 

[Imurg]

It does and you don't for sure but it would be up to the committee to test a club to determine whether or not it was conforming, it is not up to the player.

I'd argue that it is the Player's responsibility to ensure his clubs conform ...
Rule 4 starts with "A Player in doubt as to the conformity of a Club should consult the R&A"
So it's the Player's responsibility.

With clubs that are on general sale we don't have to worry about conformity as the Manufacturers have done the work for us. They wouldn't sell a product that doesn't conform without identifying it clearly. I know Dunlop or someone made some wedges with super-deep grooves - illegal for Competition but ok to use for non-Competition and this was clearly marked
A club produced in your back yard may well conform, but until it's presented to the R&A you won't know - and as such you shouldn't use it in a Competition. Imagine winning the Club Championship with a home-made putter which has 11 degrees of loft, somone challenges the conformity, especially as it's a one-off club, and it's found to be illegal.......
The principle is the same as these wedge sharpeners - once you use one on a club you have to know that the groove rules haven't been broken and unless you can measure the depths pretty damn accurately you simply don't know.