Club Championships - what's the score nowadays?

[John_Findlay]

After reading CC07's recent post about his club championship event I got to thinking about it. He mentioned it was only two rounds of strokeplay to decide the winner. Birdieman's event appeared similar.

Who's club decide their club champion in such a way nowadays? I thought it was more customary to have a couple of rounds of strokeplay to qualify for the real event of actually beating your fellow members in a matchplay situation. Usually the top 32 or 16 qualifiers would play off over a 2 week period. That way you find out the best overall stokeplay and matchplay player. And frankly I think that's the only way of finding a true club champion.

When I was in my early teens I used to watch our club championship final at Nairn Dunbar, traditionally on a Friday evening. The 2 protaganists usually drew a large crowd and the atmosphere was amazing with the cut and thrust of matchplay golf at it's best. It fostered a true club spirit and some seriously good golf (with persimmon drivers) took place. I can still remember the winners nearly 30 years later.

Does anyone think that a mere strokeplay event is a cop out to get the event over with quickly because people have less time nowadays?

 

[Tommo21]

John, I was thinking the same thing when I looked into that topic. At the two clubs I’m at they have a similar setup leading to a matchplay situation. At one club we have three medal rounds, played in consecutive weekends, and the best two scores from the three are then taken to a match play draw with the top 16 qualifiers playing in the knockout. That leads to a set finals day. Oh, for the match play draw the players are seeded according to their Q scores.

The other club is more demanding as you only have one chance to go through to the second Q round, that being the top 32 and ties go through to the second round. After the second round, it’s the top 16 that go through to the match play draw. Once again all the games are played to a final the following week and all games have set times and the draw is not seeded.

 

[freddielong]

All the Club Champs I have played in, have been 36 hole medals.

 

[brendy]

Yup 36 holes, I think by definition a championship has a leaderboard as opposed to matchplay table.
I love the format, pity it wasnt over three or four days!

 

[slugger]

Ours was a stroke play qualifying weekend followed by 4 rounds of matchplay. They had this for Div A, Div A Plate, Div B, Div C, Ladies, juniors, Seniors. It was brilliant as there was a buzz going round the clubhouse for the 2 or 3 weeks it took to complete that lot.

 

[DCB]

We have a 36 hole qualifying over a weekend in early June. This leads straight into the matchplay for the top 16 qualifiers in each section. Matchplay ties are played on specific nights over a fortnight and the actual Championship Finals day is usually held on the Sunday with a 36hole matchplay final for the successful competitiors.

Finals day is usually a good day out watching the various matches as all finals are held on the same day, gents, ladies, juniors etc. makes for a good day out.

 

[John_Findlay]

I have to disagree Brendy. Surely a champion deserves a Final?

I cite Tennis/Football/Rugby/Cricket/Snooker/Darts/Bowls/etc etc as examples.

This wishy washy strokeplay stuff is new to me so far as golf goes. Yes you may find who can beat the course. But have you found who can beat everyone in the club?

Oh. And most importantly, shouldn't the champion be playing on a level playing field to all the other players? Take this example. Player A goes out in your 36 hole championship in flat calm both days and shoots 71, 71. Player B at the other end of the draw both days goes out in a howling gale both days and shoots 74,74. Who's the better golfer? Or who's the luckier?

Matchplay after strokeplay qualifying at least takes account of that piece of luck.

Strokeplay's not right I tell ya.

 

[Hodgie]

I think as youve said the best format is over a few strokeplay rounds then into matchplay for the top 16 to full establish who the club championship should go to.

At my place i cannt believe it but the club championship is being played to full handicap allowance over just the 18 holes. How can you decide who is the best player under these conditions. As said in another post a high handicapper could have a good day and end up as club champ.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Our club play medals every Saturday and some Wednesdays from April-October (around 35 in total) and the Club Champion is the player with the best 4 round gross aggregate. We also have a prize for the best nett on the same basis but only the Club Championship is a board comp.

 

[Parmo]

I don't think we have a match pa say more an order of merit and the winner takes all.

 

[brendy]

I have to disagree Brendy. Surely a champion deserves a Final?

I cite Tennis/Football/Rugby/Cricket/Snooker/Darts/Bowls/etc etc as examples.

This wishy washy strokeplay stuff is new to me so far as golf goes. Yes you may find who can beat the course. But have you found who can beat everyone in the club?

Oh. And most importantly, shouldn't the champion be playing on a level playing field to all the other players? Take this example. Player A goes out in your 36 hole championship in flat calm both days and shoots 71, 71. Player B at the other end of the draw both days goes out in a howling gale both days and shoots 74,74. Who's the better golfer? Or who's the luckier?

Matchplay after strokeplay qualifying at least takes account of that piece of luck.

Strokeplay's not right I tell ya.

I kind of agree to a certain extent, though there are plenty of other competitions open to all (scratch and allowances) involving matchplay.
Our club championship requires qualification via the monthly medals if I remember rightly and there is a cut off for handicaps though its not strictly enforced, if a 20 handicapper id feeling lucky he can state his case for being included.

 

[Robobum]

Every club I've been at has decided the club champ over 36 holes of medal play. However, how those two rounds are played is down to the membership at that club - over 1 day or 2.

IMO it should be over 2 days with everyone going out in leaderboard order on the 2nd day. The main contenders then have to handle the pressure of sitting on a lead overnight and then produce the golf on the new day with different conditions etc.

I can fully understand why this isn't practical at a lot of clubs though. A lot of people cannot play on both days of a weekend, there would be a lot of "no shows" on the Sunday if their scores were poor on the 1st day etc, etc.

I've been fortunate enough to win our club champs twice, on both occaisions I have been in the final group so at lunch I had seen all the scores and had a very good idea of what I needed to do in the afternoon. If, for example, somebody who was an hour in front of me had shot a good morning score, they had no idea of what the final couple of groups had done and did not know whether to attack or play cautiously which puts them at a disadvantage.

We do have a matchplay thing that you qualify from being top 16 in the club champs, it's seen as that important and there will often be walk overs as it's just another set of matches to fit in.

 

[DCB]

Our main championship is open to anyone who can qualify for the last 16. We also have a B section and a C section. the B's are 8-14 hacp and C's 15 and above. All qualification and all matchplay rounds are played off scratch so the club champion is usually one of the better golfers in the club. the other two sections are equally competitive and produce worth winners.

 

[John_Findlay]

I just think the Club Champion has to be decided on a format other than a glorified medal basis. It's more fun to see who beats who as the rounds progress and makes for great banter around the clubhouse especially as it gets to the semi final stage.

"...did you see that Charlie beat Jim on the 21st? He's in the semi but he'll never get past Tiger McGlumpher" etc.

Our old club championships made for truly thrilling stuff. Better than watching a scoreboard where you're just waiting for someone to come in with a 2nd round score that beats an aggregate set by someone earlier in the day. Where's the fun in that?

It was always good to watch the Club Champ play in the semis and the final too. 36 hole medals don't allow for that.

 

[stevek1969]

Ours is 36 hole qualifying 18 one week then 18 the next then the top 16 CAT 1 players play knock out during the week then 36 hole matchplay on the sunday ,its the same for the handicap section .We have a finals day on the sunday with the men,women,seniors and juniors championships all on that day its a good day out to watch whats going on my mate to the final 3 years ago what a great day we had even tho he got beat it was still enjoyable.

 

[USER1999]

Ours is the same as DCB (36 hole qualifier, max h/cap 8, then last 16 matchplay off scratch), so is only really ever won by a cat 1 player, and normally around scratch. The club champ is defo the best player.

What club would want a 28 handicapper as the champion?

 

[Robobum]

It seems that the interpretation of "Club Champion" differs from club to club. As some have said, it is ludicrous to have a 28h'capper as your club champion.

I think (and would hope) that most club's declare the lowest GROSS score as the champion glofer. Whilst h'cap prizes and cups may be on offer, it's only the gross scores that go towards the main prize.

 

[Dodger]

John we had best 2 out of 3 medal rounds then top 16 matchplay over a week up until about 4 years ago when for whatever reason things started to become a bit of a joke with some folk who had qualified not turning up etc etc.

We now have 54 hole strokeplay over a weekend,although the format has been tinkered with over the 1st few years this year it was 18 holes Saturday then 18 Sunday morning with a cut and top 12 out for last round Sunday afternoon.
So far I think it has been a great format and each winner has been a true champion although if it were to revert back to matchplay I would have no qualms as I think I would be in with a better chance of winning it!

And by the way it is Gross or scratch at my club...we also have a B and C wich personally I consider as a total joke side show.....you only have 1 Club Champion and it canny be a guy off 22!!

 

[stevek1969]

Our handicap one was won by a 22 handicapper who beat a 26 handicapper in the final it was embarrasing to say the least our club champion plays of 1 and has won numerous times over the past 20 years.

 

[Robobum]

It's not necessarily true that you get the best golfer win if you have a matchplay finale after the strokeplay.

Matchplay over 18 holes is unpredictable at best for example it took me 16 holes to dispose of a guy who plays off of 16 in our scratch knock out. He would either get a birdie, a par or disaster 8+. I'm one over at the turn and we are all square despite him shooting approx 45 on the way out, if that had continued it is possible he could have pipped me despite shooting high 80s......that's not the best golfer is it??

Also, proceeding through any matchplay rounds because someone is unavailable on the match day is not satisfactory either is it? Fair enough if everyone can commit to all the dates required to get it finished but, from experience, that isn't easy.