Change to US style slope system from current CSS

[freddielong]

This may already have been covered to death on here but it looks like this is going to be implemented over the next couple of years, I was wondering what everyone's views were.

I personally think it will be a massive improvement on the current system.

 

[jdpjamesp]

For the benefit of the uninitiated, would you care to go over the pros and cons of each of the systems?

 

[Spuddy]

For the benefit of the uninitiated, would you care to go over the pros and cons of each of the systems?

The slope system takes into account the difficulty of the course. Under the current system you could have two courses with a SSS of 72 but one could be quite benign with wide fairways, short rough and just a few hazards whereas the other could have the opposite. A player on the hrs course with a handicap of 10 would likely play better than that on the easy course whereas a player with a 10 handicap at the easy course would struggle to play to it on the hard course. On paper they are of equal ability but in reality the player from the hard course is better and this is taken into account

 

[Mark_Aged_42]

For the confused (me!), why would these two courses have the same SSS?

 

[Spuddy]

For the confused (me!), why would these two courses have the same SSS?

as far as I understand it, the current system only takes the length into account.

 

[MendieGK]

as far as I understand it, the current system only takes the length into account.

No this isnt true. Plenty of courses have a high CSS that are very short.

 

[Foxholer]

For the confused (me!), why would these two courses have the same SSS?

The 'easy' one might have a Par of 73, while the 'hard' one might have a Par of 70!

Congu course rating is mainly length based!

In fact, the Course Rating of both would possibly/likely still be about 72. But that is what a Scratch player would be 'expected' to go round in. Recognising that more difficult courses create significantly greater challenges for higher handicappers, the Slope of the harder course would be greater (say 138 as opposed to 110, with a 'standard' course being 115) - that's where the 'Slope' tag comes from. Each player's handicap for the course (and set of tees) is calculated from the course rating plus the player's index point on the slope - for whichever set of tees are used. So an Congu 18-capper would probably get an additional 3 strokes (and be about a 15 index imo) or so for the tough course, but get 0 additional strokes for the 'easy' one.

There are lots of other differences - some better, some not imo - but that's what applies to 'course difficulty' aspect.

 

[freddielong]

The EGU are expecting to start the process of rating every course in terms of difficulty from early next year. The system takes into account landing areas at average length drives, firmness and slope of the fairway, prevailing wind direction, size of the greens pace of the greens and even the depth and thickness of the rough, to produce a difficulty rating.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Don't expect it to be fully integrated until at least 2022 if it is - so many issues surrounding it at the moment

 

[upsidedown]

The EGU are expecting to start the process of rating every course in terms of difficulty from early next year. The system takes into account landing areas at average length drives, firmness and slope of the fairway, prevailing wind direction, size of the greens pace of the greens and even the depth and thickness of the rough, to produce a difficulty rating.

Believe its already started, chap at ours is responsible for Shropshire/Herefordshire and started last February .

 

[duncan mackie]

The EGU are expecting to start the process of rating every course in terms of difficulty from early next year. The system takes into account landing areas at average length drives, firmness and slope of the fairway, prevailing wind direction, size of the greens pace of the greens and even the depth and thickness of the rough, to produce a difficulty rating.

New SSS has been established on USGA rating system for some time now, as Foxy puts it the CONGU course rating had a greater focus on length than the USGA one, or as many highlight, it's really ore a case of the USGA system taking more account of other relevant factors.

Importantly a course rating under the USGA system includes a bogey index based on the nominal capabilities of a 20 handicapper as well as the standard scratch rating. This is then used in a course matrix to derive playing handicaps etc

From a purely personal opinion I would be amazed if more than 20% of courses end up with a revised rating that has any practical impact; and I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 10%.

Put another way, it's not going to be the rating element that is going to make any noticable difference to people - it's the implementation (what and how) of a new handicapping system. Scheduled 2020 but I agree with Phil that 2022-2025 has to be more likely.

 

[Birchy]

I still think people read too much into this sort of stuff.

At the end of the day you still need to get the ball in the hole.

Wont see much change imo and people will still moan.

 

[fundy]

I still think people read too much into this sort of stuff.

At the end of the day you still need to get the ball in the hole.

Wont see much change imo and people will still moan.

Agree to a point but there are definitely handicaps that travel well and ones that dont dependent on the SSS and actually how tough the course is to a handicap golfer

To compare say RickGs course at centurion which was SSS 72 off the silvers or purples? to playing our track off the fronts (yellows) SSS 72 is laughable yet that was how the current system had it earlier this year. At a guess Id expect the 2 courses are somewhere between 5-8 shots different and this has a vast impact on how well you fare playing a handicap golfer from the other venue. Now I know im picking 2 courses at opposite extremes (ours should be rated lower, Ricks higher) but SSS can be greatly flawed (especially as they seem loathe to rerate courses much once theyve been given a rating)

 

[louise_a]

as an aside to this, I played in a tournament in Portugal with players from all over Europe, I don't know how they worked it out but I had my handicap increased.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can anyone explain why this is happening at all? I think the CONGU and CSS system seems to be working as well as any system can and brining it this will only add confusion surely

 

[fundy]

Can anyone explain why this is happening at all? I think the CONGU and CSS system seems to be working as well as any system can and brining it this will only add confusion surely

I expect the answer is to try and unify the approach to handicapping across the world but may be wrong. As for CSS working as well as any system youre just over 4 mths early Homer lol

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I expect the answer is to try and unify the approach to handicapping across the world but may be wrong. As for CSS working as well as any system youre just over 4 mths early Homer lol

Well as the only method it has, it works as well as it can but I take the point!

 

[patricks148]

we have a slope ready for the course, only thing is the half a dozen American and European golfers who come and spend the summers playing at Nairn still have to have two handicaps.

 

[KenL]

I think our course is slope rated for American visitors.

Although length is a consideration it is not the only factor in setting a SSS. Many course that are not that long have quite a high SSS depending on factors such as the size of the greens, the length the semi is cut to etc.

The US system is complicated. In the late 90s I had a US handicap index, you had to multiply your index by the slope for the course/tees used to get your playing handicap. I have no memory if there is any account of how difficult the weather is as I only played in society comps.

 

[upsidedown]

The US system is complicated. In the late 90s I had a US handicap index, you had to multiply your index by the slope for the course/tees used to get your playing handicap. I have no memory if there is any account of how difficult the weather is as I only played in society comps.

Played under it in NZ for 5+ years and after initial misgivings found it to be an easy system to work with.

Most courses I played you had to enter your NZ golf number into computer and your scorecard was printed out with your handicap on it . Weather is not considered as part of the process.