Censorship

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Because someone doesn't like what's being said, or indeed that a critical discussion is ongoing. Though some of the the criticism may have been a bit negative in observation, it was surely trying to be positive and supportive through suggestion. What's the problem with that. That all golf clubs were forunate enough to have free expert consultancy from a constituency such as this.

 

[virtuocity]

Agree, but I also think that the OP of a thread should reserve the right to have his/her thread pulled at their request.

If a poster named (or shamed) their club online and the club contacted GM to complain, I would be annoyed to see the thread pulled.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Why do I always miss the threads that get closed\deleted?

 

[Neddy]

Agree that the OP has the right to ask for a thread he/she starts to be pulled.

But as for someone at the club not being pleased about it.....I don't really get it.

The club themselves made people aware of the problem by posting the open letter on the web for the entire world to see.

The thread gave some good sensible advice on how to improve the situation and the OP did nothing but talk up the course as i remember it. It seems the OP is doing more to improve the health of the club than the people running it

If the club are that unwilling to accept constructive criticism / take new ideas on board then i'm not surprised they are in trouble and it's only going one way.

More a case of the member being censored than posters here being censored

 

[Val]

Why have I missed?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Some chap or chapesse posted that his club was getting rid of the pro and catering and was losing members, and put the name of his club in his sig. A few (including me) then looked at the web site of said club and the general consensus was that it was poor and not very welcoming.

Biggest criticism was that the first thing you saw in the offers section was the letter sent to the members saying that the pro and catering were going due to the fall in membership, which a few pointed out might not be the best way of attracting new members. Also the web site said that any visitor MUST (and they put the capital letters in) be a member of a club to play. Which was thought to be giving itself a lot of side and a bit stupid as they were struggling for cash. Plus there was no details of how much it was to be a member and the obligatory long list of what you can't do/wear which golf clubs are so enamoured with.

There was one excellent and very long post by londonlinks saying how to increase members, plus a few other good suggestions. And there were a few posts saying how crap and unwelcoming the web site was.

Looked like a classic case of the people running the club not having a clue about business, and the OP was understandably frustrated that his (or her) club may be going to the wall. Looked a nice course, but overpriced and run by people with little clue about how the club would survive. And if anyone who runs the club is reading this then I'm sorry and I hope you pull through this, but that's the message your web site is giving out.

Hope that's just about summed it up.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I suggested that the root cause of the problem was probably the Sec/manager [if they had one] not keeping abreast of the times.

I think he/she may have been the one who was upset!!

If they have a sec/manager, pro, caterer, and bar steward......well that is some wage bill for a club that size.

 

[duncan mackie]

as we are in an agreeing mode -

I agree that the moderators have the right to pull any thread for any reason they consider appropriate - they answer elsewhere for their actions; that's how it needs to work.

Strange that people who feel they have a right to post a comment don't feel the business owners have a right to remove posts/threads.

 

[stevie_r]

So I presume that you believe a retailer, AG for example, have the right to have every negative thread pulled too?

 

[duncan mackie]

So I presume that you believe a retailer, AG for example, have the right to have every negative thread pulled too?

if you are addressing me, where did I say that?

 

[stevie_r]

if you are addressing me, where did I say that?

Yes Duncan, it was directed to yourself. Cut the ultra defensive bit though, I didn't accuse you of saying anything, I asked your opinion on something given your response in post 8.

 

[Odvan]

I think the request from the Club simply backed the OP's point up, really. Everything was constructive and was nothing that the members or locals via word of mouth wouldn't have known already.

Another opportunity missed for those 'in charge'.

Just hope the poster won't be hung, drawn and quartered by his fellow members now, if of course, he's known. Clearly the chap had a damn site more enthusiasm and passion for the place than the 'leaders'.

 

[brendy]

I think the request from the Club simply backed the OP's point up, really. Everything was constructive and was nothing that the members or locals via word of mouth wouldn't have known already.

Another opportunity missed for those 'in charge'.

Just hope the poster won't be hung, drawn and quartered by his fellow members now, if of course, he's known. Clearly the chap had a damn site more enthusiasm and passion for the place than the 'leaders'.

To be honest I think the OP put his thread up out of frustration but has gone down badly and rightly asked for his own thread to be removed, similarly some guys in the past have flounced off asking for their accounts to be deleted, they are within their rights to ask. Its really a bit of a non issue in my mind and not a question of censorship at all.

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes Duncan, it was directed to yourself. Cut the ultra defensive bit though, I didn't accuse you of saying anything, I asked your opinion on something given your response in post 8.

sorry I only ever read these in linear mode so unless a post is quoted I only see it as the next post

not defensive regarding content, just confused; I stated my view extremely specifically such that your question is already answered (unless AG are a moderator)

 

[Odvan]

To be honest I think the OP put his thread up out of frustration but has gone down badly and rightly asked for his own thread to be removed, similarly some guys in the past have flounced off asking for their accounts to be deleted, they are within their rights to ask. Its really a bit of a non issue in my mind and not a question of censorship at all.

Brendy, am in no way questioning the reasons for the request, they're understandable.

Lets just say that it was hypothetical and had the Club not been mentioned it would have made for a cracking thread...

 

[sev112]

You know what would have been good
The Sec /etc. co in on, saying
"Thanks for everyone's interest; we've been having a very difficult time, we've tried a variety of things and unfortunately we've got to this point; we know it won't go down well but we hope it will be short term. thanks for all the positive suggestions, we have given many of them consideration already but there are a couplemwewill definitely look forward to. we note some of the comments on the website and we will look at that too. We would be very pleased to have members of the GM forum to come along as visitors if you would like to get in touch with us. thanks for everyone's suggestins and interest in our club. Best wishes for your golf and your forum ."

There you are - some free PR for them as well.

I am sure a message like that would have done them nothing but good and possibly got them a bit more business as well, and we all know how a good word goes in this business.

 

[3offTheTee]

Gents

Being 'guilty' of the original post and once again reiterating how positive the comments were I received an email referring to a 'soapbox forum' and nothing would be gained. No comment required on that point

The lengthy comments were really appreciated and I sent a personal thank you to the guy who wrote at length re the way forward. There was nothing negative in the comments made,only positive help which is what was required.

some clubs are struggling but I wrote 2 years' ago regarding on line booking. I even did the homework with BRS and gave them contact but to no avail. The website is what you would expect 10 years ago and whilst we need to move on I am sure you understand my frustration.

Many thanks for your understanding and enjoy your golf at the weekend!

 

[stevie_r]

sorry I only ever read these in linear mode so unless a post is quoted I only see it as the next post

not defensive regarding content, just confused; I stated my view extremely specifically such that your question is already answered (unless AG are a moderator)

No probs Duncan and apologies for the tone of my response which with hindsight wasn't overly friendly.

I find the subject of forum censorship an interesting one - although it has been shown now that this hasn't really been a censorship issue at all but an OP requesting his thread be removed.

I find it odd that it is permitted on this forum to give organisations and retailers such negative publicity, especially when a lot of the time it is totally subjective rather than objective; someone doesn't shave 10 shots of their scores following a custom fit at AG (for example) and then clearly it is AGs incompetence of course - not their inconsistencies.

Indeed on one occasion (the Fore24 post) a poster gave Fore24 an absolute stinking post while failing to reveal of course that they were directors (iirc) or partners of two internet retailers that they recommended instead!

On another hobby related internet forum I frequent, it is absolutely forbidden to slate either retailers or private sellers. You can apply negative feedback through the market place there but not start a thread which could be potentially damaging to someone's bushiness.

 

[brendy]

Totally agree, without names Id gave said you could estimate at least a couple of dozen courses (maybe more) in the UK where a situation similar to this exists.
Bottom line is that a lot of clubs are suffering at the moment and partly due to management and it could be easily improved upon if groups of clubs put their heads together and shared experience on what works and what doesn't.

Brendy, am in no way questioning the reasons for the request, they're understandable.

Lets just say that it was hypothetical and had the Club not been mentioned it would have made for a cracking thread...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Cheers 3off.
As someone posted earlier you obviously have the club at your heart and I hope this has not caused you any grief.

I have worked with golf club committees for more than 40 years, it can be very difficult if you have a divided club with 'experts' crawling out of every corner.
Sometimes it requires someone from outside the club to spot the problem areas.
I did a fair amount of that, mainly on course maintenance and the planning and setting up of new courses.
Members tend to get very defensive if you criticize 'their' course. It can be quite a hurdle to overcome.