Captains right of way!

[GB72]

Read GB72's quote, He had it and it was a final straw for him so left so that club lost out for another old school rule, I am sure there was more to it but some clubs need to change very quickly.

Mine was not a protest on the rule per se but rather how it was applied and the people skills used. One of my group was a teacher who needed to be back for school sports in the afternoon but this was not seen as a good enough reason to keep our place in the queue. As it happens the captain's group was so slow he had to walk off after 14 holes. Also bear in mind that this group had brought over about a dozen members from their old club so had done plenty to boost the membership of the club in question. Add to that the fact that we had queued whilst the captain's group Sat in a nice warm clubhouse having breakfast and you can understand the frustration of that situation

 

[chrisd]

This was my main gripe TBH Chris, not the unwritten rule itself, although I think those that felt the need to exercise it knowing members had been standing in a queue for 20 minutes or more are simply on a power trip with no thought of the general membership, which they will return to in 12 months!

For the ex-captain to confront me on behalf of the captain in his company in any manner and then expand on it at the 2nd tee when competing in a medal far outweighs the original offence, if indeed it can be called that!

When they arrived on the 2nd tee and saw us still waiting, I pointed out that their handicap secretary who was on the green at the 2nd did not call us down! Our 2nd is a courtesy hole, a 209yd par3 and when everyone is on the green you are requested to call down those on the tee and then putt out, they didn't, so it would seem that our committee members do not run by the same rules, written or unwritten that they like to preach when it suits only them!

I agree with you totally on the way it was done Robin, totally outrageous!

 

[cleanstrike]

As a newcomer to the sport of golf and still struggling to understand all of the rules and etiquette, I'd like to ask this question in relation to this thread.

If I was a paying visitor to a club and some chap came up to me claiming to be the club captain or someone equally 'important' (allegedly) and demanded to be allowed through, am I to be expected to wait and allow him/her to carry on ahead of me. I ask because, generally speaking, the only thing that gets people ahead of me if I was there first is when they've got blue flashing lights and sirens going. Everybody else waits.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As a newcomer to the sport of golf and still struggling to understand all of the rules and etiquette, I'd like to ask this question in relation to this thread.

If I was a paying visitor to a club and some chap came up to me claiming to be the club captain or someone equally 'important' (allegedly) and demanded to be allowed through, am I to be expected to wait and allow him/her to carry on ahead of me. I ask because, generally speaking, the only thing that gets people ahead of me if I was there first is when they've got blue flashing lights and sirens going. Everybody else waits.

Judge the situation - if they are playing a comp then possibly , if you are holding them up then yes but it's all how the person asks and what the situation

It's not very likely you will get someone coming up demanding they are let through because of who they are.


At least the OP didnt get kicked off St Andrews Airforce Base GC because Obama wanted to play !! That happened to a mate of mine

 

[bladeplayer]

Its in our local rules that all Official Comps have right of way above general play and certain unofficial comps.

Then the Captain , committee or any member has no right to actually break or to want to break club rules ..

you should have offered (courtesy), and he should have declined unless there was good reason (

I really like this answer..

 

[garyinderry]

i believe you should ask the captain to step forward in the queue. the pressure will be on his shoulders to perform if he accepts.


it is a perk of the job and only manners to offer.


it shouldn't come up all that often. I think its only happened to me once. I arrived at the tee just ahead of him. I was waiting for my friend to appear from the changing rooms, so was he. I let him take the tee first as its the done thing.

we have tee times for comps (sat&sun) and you can book a tee for any time during the week. the captain will book like the rest of us at the weekend.

 

[harpo_72]

If you in a competition and waiting 20 minutes on tee, the club is too full. I don't care too much about the captain's perks provided we all know them. Anywhere where there is a ridiculous waiting time suggests that you should look for quieter times in the day. After 3pm at mine in summer is quiet, after 5pm its dead... I love it. Just find the times when it's clear and get your fill. Work can be done any time

 

[Fish]

If you in a competition and waiting 20 minutes on tee, the club is too full. I don't care too much about the captain's perks provided we all know them. Anywhere where there is a ridiculous waiting time suggests that you should look for quieter times in the day. After 3pm at mine in summer is quiet, after 5pm its dead... I love it. Just find the times when it's clear and get your fill. Work can be done any time

You need 8-10 minutes gap off our 1st tee with 4 balls, that's what they do when comps and tee times are booked, this Saturday was a NTR medal so you could play in it by choice by informing the Pro on the day, as such there was general play and winter league matches (not official) going on around everyone. You only need 3 or 4 3-balls arriving at the 1st for there to be a wait of around 15/20 minutes.

After 3 or 5pm isn't an option now is it, unless your course is floodlit? As such there will now be a rush to tee of before 1pm every weekend currently.

 

[harpo_72]

You need 8-10 minutes gap off our 1st tee with 4 balls, that's what they do when comps and tee times are booked, this Saturday was a NTR medal so you could play in it by choice by informing the Pro on the day, as such there was general play and winter league matches (not official) going on around everyone. You only need 3 or 4 3-balls arriving at the 1st for there to be a wait of around 15/20 minutes.

After 3 or 5pm isn't an option now is it, unless your course is floodlit? As such there will now be a rush to tee of before 1pm every weekend currently.

No your right now its not an option but summer time is fine. You will always get more pressure on a reasonable winter day. But I am sure you can find a quiet time ...

 

[MadAdey]

Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order.

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.

 

[chrisd]

Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order.

.

I agree with every word Adey, now watch someone do the usual post !

Captains only do the job because they need to be seen as important and for what's in it for themselves - you know the one!

 

[GB72]

Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order.

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.

Totally agree, I have no problem with the rule in general and agree that there should be some perks to what can be a very onerous position. It is all down to how and when they are applied. In Fish's case, the way in which it was dealt with was totally inappropriate and, whilst I could be wrong, some of the actions and comments made by the Captain's group seem to suggest that there may be something personal in it as well as simply the application of a courtesy. Apologies Fish if I am out of order suggesting that but it sounds to me like some people had an axe to grind and were using this an opportunity.

In my situation when I received the captain's 'excuse me', again, I feel that it was an inappropriate time to do so and further that it was not dealt with in a particularly pleasant manner. On a cold morning on a busy course, it will always grind my gears if I have to give up my place because the Captain and his group wanted to sit in the warm with a full English rather than queue in the cold and wet with everyone else. To then be presented with a very legitimate reason why one of our group was in a rush that day and to shrug it off as hard luck was also a bit much. To compound that by then saying that they will try not to hold us up, a tacit way of stating that we were not going to be played through, was the last straw.

I have been to many clubs who have this rule and spoken to members and not one has seen a captain make use of it except on his last day in office when it was sort of expected of him to do so.

 

[One Planer]

Our club captain is quite the opposite.

Although we have this rule at our club, I don't think I've ever seen him use it and, on more than one occasion, seen him let other groups tee off before him and his group.

A typical example a few weeks back where he was playing with his regular 4 ball and he let a 3 ball tee off before him so as not to hold them up. bearing in mind two of the players in his regular group are higher handicappers (Not a handicap dig BTW)

If he ever did decide to exercise his 'right' to the first tee, I would have no issue in letting him.

 

[MadAdey]

In Fish's case, the way in which it was dealt with was totally inappropriate and, whilst I could be wrong, some of the actions and comments made by the Captain's group seem to suggest that there may be something personal in it as well as simply the application of a courtesy.

I see what you are saying, it sounds like there may have been a bit more in it. Or the person is just rude and ignorant.

I have been to many clubs who have this rule and spoken to members and not one has seen a captain make use of it except on his last day in office when it was sort of expected of him to do so.

Had this at one club I was a member of once. Captain turned up at the first tee with the soon to be Captain and what is considered 2 of the slowest players in the club. Used his right to go ahead of the 20 or so people on the tee and proceeded to take 2 1/2 to play the front 9. He did then take a break at the halfway house and buy everyone who he pushed in front of a drink and let them play through. Only time I have been caught by this though, quite a few people were moaning, but I saw the funny side of it as did my playing partners, but then again I am in the military so I probably have the sense of humour that would find this funny.:rofl:

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.

Captain's right of way is a long held tradition at most decent clubs
To ignore it makes you look pretty ill informed.

The instance of the OP is strange and shows that Captain in a very poor light. Perhaps we don't know the full story. Especially with an ex captain playing as well.

Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.

PS sounds like many clubs need to invest in an on line booking system.

 

[MadAdey]

The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.

I see your point, but most clubs change their Captain at this time of year, I know mine does. So you might not actually recognise him.

Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.

Absolutely spot on.....:thup:

 

[talksalot81]

Were it me, I would have apologised and asked them to provide me a list of all these rules so that I could familiarise myself with them. I would imagine that this sort of thing is very loose and depends rather upon the good will of those on the tee. If I was with a paying guest and someone tried this on me, I would flat out refuse. There are too many old farts with their heads in their bottoms.

 

[Robobum]

Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order.

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.

I'm not disagreeing with your post Adey but, certainly at our club, the captains have 3 free subscription years (Vice, actual & immediate past) - £2.5k approx.

Like everything, there are good & bad captains who do the job for varying reasons and put into it varying amounts of time and commitment not to mention a fair few quid across the bar.

Like you, I like the rule and, as long as it's not abused, think it should stay.

 

[User 105]

I don't have any issue with the 'rule' providing it's used appropriately. As has been said these guys dedicate a lot of time and in some cases quite a bit of their own money to being captain all for the benefit of the members. So have no issues giving a little back.

I've been on the end of it a few times and actually find it's not the captain as such that causes the issues. Usually an overzealous starter or some prat in his group. Most of the captains I've come across seem decent blokes.

I was once out by myself and was asked by the starter to stand aside on the first tee after I'd already teed the ball up to make way for the captain, bad timing, but thought ok no biggie I'm in no hurry. So grabbed my ball and was walking back to my bag when the captain asked me what I was doing as he was only just walking up to the 1st. He just said "Don't be daft, get up there and give a good hit". Top bloke.

I've also had course rangers running round in front of the captains 4 ball on a Sunday morning clearing people out the way so they can play through 'As they were in a hurry !'.

 

[patricks148]

The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.

Captain's right of way is a long held tradition at most decent clubs
To ignore it makes you look pretty ill informed.

The instance of the OP is strange and shows that Captain in a very poor light. Perhaps we don't know the full story. Especially with an ex captain playing as well.

Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.

PS sounds like many clubs need to invest in an on line booking system.

I tend to agree, on the whole most deserve the lttle perks they get.

Hours of Com meeting speeches and functions all for the benifit of the club, i don't begrudge the club Captains his parking space etc.