Can't find the answer to this one-ball unplayable

[toyboy54]

This one came up today....Course is pretty sodden,you carve your drive way right into a bush where you would have to take an unplayable(1 stroke)but you would be standing in casual water,can you take another(more advantegous drop)? Think I know the answer but any advice would settle this!thank you gents!

Jimbo

 

[Blue in Munich]

I believe that you take your unplayable drop under penalty of one stroke and then if you are entitle to relief from casual water you then proceed under that rule taking relief as appropriate.

 

[Colin L]

If you mean, as I think you mean, can you deem your ball unplayable, drop it within 2 club lengths, find that you are standing in casual water for your next stroke and take relief from that, that's correct. It has to be two separate actions as Blue in Munich describes.

 

[North Mimms]

If you mean, as I think you mean, can you deem your ball unplayable, drop it within 2 club lengths, find that you are standing in casual water for your next stroke and take relief from that, that's correct. It has to be two separate actions as Blue in Munich describes.

Nearest point of relief from casual water on some courses is the Clubhouse!

 

[pbrown7582]

Wonder if in this situation anyone has tried to claim casual water free relief from the bush to save the unplayable penalty?

 

[Colin L]

Wonder if in this situation anyone has tried to claim casual water free relief from the bush to save the unplayable penalty?

If there were interference from casual water for a shot from the bush, relief would depend on whether a shot was practicable. If the bush made any shot impossible, then you couldn't take relief.

 

[Spuddy]

If there were interference from casual water for a shot from the bush, relief would depend on whether a shot was practicable. If the bush made any shot impossible, then you couldn't take relief.

Only the player can deem a ball unplayable so if you say you would play it then you're eligible for a drop if you're standing in casual water. I guess it comes down to morals!

 

[Colin L]

Only the player can deem a ball unplayable so if you say you would play it then you're eligible for a drop if you're standing in casual water. I guess it comes down to morals!

I should be clear that I'm talking about a situation where the ball in the bush is not in casual water but the player's feet in taking his stance would be.

In the context of determining whether relief can be taken from an abnormal ground condition like casual water (or from an obstruction), it isn't a matter of the player deeming his ball unplayable or otherwise . We are looking to see whether a shot is practicable, i.e. that it is actually possible to make a shot.

In the OP's situation, if his ball was so tangled up in the roots of the bush that it was not possible to play it, it wouldn't matter if he were standing in water up to his ankles, he would not be given relief.

Have a look at the Exception to Rule 25-1b which starts:

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition makes the stroke clearly impracticable........

 

[CMAC]

I should be clear that I'm talking about a situation where the ball in the bush is not in casual water but the player's feet in taking his stance would be.

In the context of determining whether relief can be taken from an abnormal ground condition like casual water (or from an obstruction), it isn't a matter of the player deeming his ball unplayable or otherwise . We are looking to see whether a shot is practicable, i.e. that it is actually possible to make a shot.

In the OP's situation, if his ball was so tangled up in the roots of the bush that it was not possible to play it, it wouldn't matter if he were standing in water up to his ankles, he would not be given relief.

Have a look at the Exception to Rule 25-1b which starts:

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition makes the stroke clearly impracticable........

and who determines that? what one player finds impossible another is quite capable of.

wonder how a rules official would approach this when Seve was about to play another 'impossible' shot

 

[rulefan]

and who determines that? what one player finds impossible another is quite capable of.

The committee.
If its a match, rule 2-5 applies. If it is strokeplay and there is a disagreement and no referee available, then the player should use rule 3-3.

 

[MadAdey]

If I read you correctly then this is coming down to a matter of honesty. Are you trying to get free relief because of the casual water so you can take the ball from the bush and drop it in the clear for free rather than taking a drop under penalty of 1 stroke?

If the ball is buried in the bush then I think you have to take a drop under penalty of 1 stroke. If the ball is in the bush but it is feasible that you could maybe hack it out down the fairway then you get the free drop for the casual water.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Some helpful decisions on whether relief is available under Rule 25 when there is a question as to whether a shot is practical or reasonable

25-1b/20 Stance Interfered with by Burrowing Animal Hole; Impracticable to Make Stroke Because of Other Condition
25-1b/21 Cast of Burrowing Animal Interferes with Stroke Towards Green; Tree Prevents Such Stroke
25-1b/22 Cast of Burrowing Animal Interferes with Sideways Stroke; When Relief Granted

details at

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=EA07E565-234F-4FDA-A212-7680070507E9

I think I am also right in saying that, before deciding to take relief under Rule 25, it is worth bearing in mind that the nearest point of relief from the casual water or other abnormal ground condition might be further into the bushes.
See Decision 25-1b/2 Diagrams Illustrating Nearest Point of Relief