louise_a
Money List Winner
If you have a shot over a bunker and you see debris in the bunker, are you allowed to remove it before you attempt to play over the bunker?
Can you remove debris from a bunker your ball is not in?
- Thread starter louise_a
- Start date
Foxholer
Blackballed
Assuming you are talking about Loose Impediments, then Yes. Rule (23-1) is quite specific (about the exception - preventing you from doing so only when both ball and LI touch the same hazard).
Other stuff (Moveable Obstructions) can be moved any time.
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Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
Yes, you can move any loose impediment from a hazard providing your ball isn't in the same hazard
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
Yes, the rule only applies when both the ball and loose impediment are in the same hazard.
Birchy
Money List Winner
Not showing much confidence in the next shot are we Louise? 
louise_a
Money List Winner
lol, it was one of the girls that raised the query and there was some disagreement, so I am demonstrating the power of the forum.
Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
If you happen to be passing a bunker and see large twigs and branches that have blown into it then it's good courtesy to those playing after you if you remove them.
chrisd
Major Champion
Colin L
Tour Winner
But take care, Louise. The bunker is on your line of play so that although you could go into it to remove loose impediments or movable obstructions, you cannot rake over the footprints you make before playing. See Decision13-2/29
hamshanker
Challenge Tour Pro
But take care, Louise. The bunker is on your line of play so that although you could go into it to remove loose impediments or movable obstructions, you cannot rake over the footprints you make before playing. See Decision13-2/29[/QUOTE
Hmmmm some rules baffle me sometimesi looked at dec 13-2/29 thinkin ok you could be deemed to be testing the bunker if you do hit your next shot into it buttttt then looked at dec 13-2/29.3 which allows you to rake footprints even when its in your line of play coz you could still nob it into the bunker,i cant get my head around it why one allows and the other doesnt.....
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Hmmmm some rules baffle me sometimes
it's the thinking that's causing the problem here
there is nothing in 13-2 about testing the surface of anything...it's a rule about playing the ball and course as you find them, and the exceptions and subsequent associated issues around those exceptions.
if you stick to the general principles it's easier
the rule states
"A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
the position or lie of his ball,
the area of his intended stance or swing,
his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
pressing a club on the ground,
moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4. "
so, from the bits in bold, if an area is on his line of play he can't smooth it out/improve it (noting that none of the exceptions apply)
13-2/29 provides a clarification that if you choose to take an action that has the byproduct of worsening conditions on your line of play you are not entitled to repair or otherwise improve that condition from the one you created.
13-2/29.3 states that if you take an action required by the rules and it results in a worsening of conditions you are permitted to restore the condition (entirely consistent with other rules situations)
elsewhere in the rules (13-2/8 and sub decisions) it's clarified that if someone else, or another agency, does something that results in a worsening of the conditions on your line of play you are permitted to repair it.
hope this helps
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LIG
Q-School Graduate
it's the thinking that's causing the problem here
there is nothing in 13-2 about testing the surface of anything...it's a rule about playing the ball and course as you find them, and the exceptions and subsequent associated issues around those exceptions.
if you stick to the general principles it's easier
the rule states
"A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
the position or lie of his ball,
the area of his intended stance or swing,
his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
pressing a club on the ground,
moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4. "
so, from the bits in bold, if an area is on his line of play he can't smooth it out/improve it (noting that none of the exceptions apply)
13-2/29 provides a clarification that if you choose to take an action that has the byproduct of worsening conditions on your line of play you are not entitled to repair or otherwise improve that condition from the one you created.
13-2/29.3 states that if you take an action required by the rules and it results in a worsening of conditions you are permitted to restore the condition (entirely consistent with other rules situations)
elsewhere in the rules (13-2/8 and sub decisions) it's clarified that if someone else, or another agency, does something that results in a worsening of the conditions on your line of play you are permitted to repair it.
hope this helps
It certainly does Duncan. Thanks! :thup:
hamshanker
Challenge Tour Pro
it's the thinking that's causing the problem here
there is nothing in 13-2 about testing the surface of anything...it's a rule about playing the ball and course as you find them, and the exceptions and subsequent associated issues around those exceptions.
if you stick to the general principles it's easier
the rule states
"A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
the position or lie of his ball,
the area of his intended stance or swing,
his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
pressing a club on the ground,
moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4. "
so, from the bits in bold, if an area is on his line of play he can't smooth it out/improve it (noting that none of the exceptions apply)
13-2/29 provides a clarification that if you choose to take an action that has the byproduct of worsening conditions on your line of play you are not entitled to repair or otherwise improve that condition from the one you created.
13-2/29.3 states that if you take an action required by the rules and it results in a worsening of conditions you are permitted to restore the condition (entirely consistent with other rules situations)
elsewhere in the rules (13-2/8 and sub decisions) it's clarified that if someone else, or another agency, does something that results in a worsening of the conditions on your line of play you are permitted to repair it.
hope this helps
Yeah it is the thinking thats boggling my brain
Yeah ive got it now,13-2/19.3 states if you take an action requiredby the rules where as 13-2/29 states if you chooseto take an action,all in the wording
Got there in the end phew think i need a beer now:lol:
cheers for your help:thup:
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
hamshanker
Challenge Tour Pro
me too - heading off for 5 days of beer in a few hours
Oooh very nice somewhere warm i hope......
Colin L
Tour Winner
me too - heading off for 5 days of beer in a few hours
You're going to drink 5 day's worth of beer in the space of a few hours?
oo::cheers:
