Can you loose a ball in GUR?

[mikejohnchapman]

Played today at a course where major work is underway to add mounds to separate fairways on the course. As a result there are some very large GUR areas designated on the course.

One member of our group hit his tee shot into the area but try as we might we couldn't find the ball within 5 minutes of searching.

We all saw it enter the GUR so does that mean you can establish the nearest point of relief and drop without penalty or is it a lost ball?

Local rule said it was a free drop - BAU - but didn't comment on finding th ball.

 

[palindromicbob]

Played today at a course where major work is underway to add mounds to separate fairways on the course. As a result there are some very large GUR areas designated on the course.

One member of our group hit his tee shot into the area but try as we might we couldn't find the ball within 5 minutes of searching.

We all saw it enter the GUR so does that mean you can establish the nearest point of relief and drop without penalty or is it a lost ball?

Local rule said it was a free drop - BAU - but didn't comment on finding th ball.

Give rule 25-1c a quick read and it will give you the answer. A few different situations covered by it.

 

[backwoodsman]

Yes, if you lose a ball in GUR then you get free relief - taking the point where ball last crossed the margin as your point of reference. Main thing is you have to be sure (KOVC) the ball is in there. "Could be" or "might be" ain't enough. In the case as described, l guess the thing you'd need to be sure of is that the ball didn't go right over the GUR. As Bob says, see rule 25-1c (and associated decisions)

 

[duncan mackie]

Agree everything that's been posted so far, and would just post the wording from the exception to rule 27 (lost ball) for clarity

"If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball, that has not been found, has been moved by an*outside agency(Rule*18-1), is in an*obstruction*(Rule*24-3), is in an*abnormal ground condition*(Rule*25-1) or is in a*water hazard*(Rule*26-1), the player may proceed under the applicable Rule."

Finding the ball in these situations is one form of knowledge. For completeness the rules give a working definition as follows -

26-1/1*Meaning of "Known or Virtually Certain"

When a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and cannot be found, a player may not assume that his ball is in the water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the water hazard. In order to proceed under Rule*26-1, it must be "known or virtually certain" that the ball is in the water hazard. In the absence of "knowledge or virtual certainty" that it lies in a water hazard, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost somewhere other than in a water hazard and the player must proceed under Rule*27-1.

When a player's ball cannot be found, "knowledge" may be gained that his ball is in a water hazard in a number of ways. The player or his caddie or other members of his match or group may actually observe the ball disappear into the water hazard. Evidence provided by other reliable witnesses may also establish that the ball is in the water hazard. Such evidence could come from a referee, an observer, spectators or other outside agencies. It is important that all readily accessible information be considered because, for example, the mere fact that a ball has splashed in a water hazard would not always provide "knowledge" that the ball is in the water hazard, as there are instances when a ball may skip out of, and come to rest outside, the hazard.

In the absence of "knowledge" that the ball is in the water hazard, Rule*26-1*requires there to be "virtual certainty" that the player's ball is in the water hazard in order to proceed under this Rule.*Unlike "knowledge," "virtual certainty" implies some small degree of doubt about the actual location of a ball that has not been found. However, "virtual certainty" also means that, although the ball has not been found, when all readily available information is considered, the conclusion that there is nowhere that the ball could be except in the water hazard would be justified.

In determining whether "virtual certainty" exists, some of the relevant factors in the area of the water hazard to be considered include topography, turf conditions, grass heights, visibility, weather conditions and the proximity of trees, bushes and abnormal ground conditions.

The same principles would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule*18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule*24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule*25-1c).