Can I take a provisional.....

[sawtooth]

....when I fancy it?

I did Google this but could not find a concrete answer.

I think the rule is that you may take a provisional if you suspect your ball is lost or may have a hard time finding it. Is there any thing stopping someone taking a provisional on any shot even though the ball may be clearly in play on or just off a fairway? Seems open to interpretation.

What controls abuse of the provisional ball rule? If someone wanted for example to get some extra tee shot practice in a round, it appears they can just say "worried about that one I will hit another". Who can argue if the player decides that even if it may be clear to PP's that all is well.

Obviously not in the spirit of the game , bad etiquette, etc

but what rule breach and penalty is there?

 

[rosecott]

I think this is your answer:

27-2a/3

Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q. In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

A. No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play – see Decision 27-2a/2.

 

[Smiffy]

Could somebody mention this to Preet????

 

[Ethan]

If a player plays a provisional ball in the absence of reasonable belief that their original ball is lost etc, then that ball becomes the ball in play and they have effectively played 3 off the tee. The Committee would presumably have to determine if there was reasonable belief or not.

 

[sawtooth]

So the part where it says "reasonable possibility" protects against someone abusing the system?

I guess the group decides if someone is taking the pee, if for example someone takes a provisional for landing in semi rough, or over a brow of a hill, or anywhere where the ball is out of sight?

 

[chrisd]

Could somebody mention this to Preet????

I'm not sure that there is any rule that covers " umpteen provisionals in the hope that we'll find one" sometimes I think he gets confused with being at a golf range!

 

[rulefan]

but what rule breach and penalty is there?

He could be penalised additionally under 7-2 (Practice During Round)

 

[Ethan]

I'm not sure that there is any rule that covers " umpteen provisionals in the hope that we'll find one" sometimes I think he gets confused with being at a golf range!

You can keep hitting provisionals as long as your reservoir of golf balls will sustain it so long as the preceding shot justifies it each time. I have seen a player hit a tee shot that looked dodgy, hit a bona fide provo OOB, hit another one OOB, then hit what would be 7 off the tee before finding the original tee shot, hitting a miracle shot and getting a gross birdie.

 

[sawtooth]

He could be penalised additionally under 7-2 (Practice During Round)

I couldn't see any connection in that ruling to a mis-use of the provisional ball - unless I missed it.

Seems a pretty grey area to me, hard to tell if someone is overly cautious or simply abusing the rule. A players view of what "reasonable possibility" is and the playing partner(s) could be different.

I guess its dealt with afterwards by committee as Ethan said if there are sufficient complaints.

I haver never seen or heard anyone doing this but it has come up in conversation and its good to know official ruling.

 

[CliveW]

You can keep hitting provisionals as long as your reservoir of golf balls will sustain it so long as the preceding shot justifies it each time. I have seen a player hit a tee shot that looked dodgy, hit a bona fide provo OOB, hit another one OOB, then hit what would be 7 off the tee before finding the original tee shot, hitting a miracle shot and getting a gross birdie.

Can you do that? Surely if you play a provisional under the rules, and that provisional is OOB or in a water hazard, then you cannot play another provisional? In other words, is the second provisional a provisional for the first provisional, or a second provisional for the original???

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Can you do that? Surely if you play a provisional under the rules, and that provisional is OOB or in a water hazard, then you cannot play another provisional? In other words, is the second provisional a provisional for the first provisional, or a second provisional for the original???

The second provisional is a provision to the first provisional.

i.e

1st shot - original tee shot

2nd shot - 1st provisional (3 off the tee)

3rd shot - 2nd provisional (5 off the tee)

etc etc.

Then when you look for it, the earliest one you find is the one that counts. If you find your first ball, you're playing your second shot. If you find your third ball, your next shot will be your 6th,

 

[dufferman]

The other side of the coin here is the chance of a FC calling you up on 'too many' provisional balls, discouraging you from taking one then not finding your ball. Yes a trip back to the tee is acceptable, but it could seriously upset your game mentally, AND to be honest a lot of the time a trip back to the tee can cause a few slow play upsets...

 

[CliveW]

The second provisional is a provision to the first provisional.

i.e

1st shot - original tee shot

2nd shot - 1st provisional (3 off the tee)

3rd shot - 2nd provisional (5 off the tee)

etc etc.

Then when you look for it, the earliest one you find is the one that counts. If you find your first ball, you're playing your second shot. If you find your third ball, your next shot will be your 6th,

... But, if the original ball, or any provisional, is OOB, you cannot play a provisional.

 

[delc]

... But, if the original ball, or any provisional, is OOB, you cannot play a provisional.

If you know or are virtually certain that your original ball is OOB or in a water hazard, you are right and the 2nd ball will be 3 off the tee. However if there is any doubt then you are still entitled to play a provisional ball. It's really just a means to speed up play and to stop you having to walk back to the teeing ground or the previous spot if the original ball is OOB or lost outside a water hazard.

 

[CliveW]

If you know or are virtually certain that your original ball is OOB or in a water hazard, you are right and the 2nd ball will be 3 off the tee. However if there is any doubt then you are still entitled to play a provisional ball. It's really just a means to speed up play and to stop you having to walk back to the teeing ground or the previous spot if the original ball is OOB or lost outside a water hazard.

I am aware of this. The reason I posted my comment, was because in post #8 it was stated that a provisional was played when the player was aware that the previous provisional shot was OOB, therefore it could not be a provisional.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

... But, if the original ball, or any provisional, is OOB, you cannot play a provisional.

Sorry yes, I should have said that.

i would correct that slightly though, to say if the ball just struck is known or virtually certain to be OOB, then you cannot play a provisional. I think that is the most accurate?

 

[pogle]

Sorry yes, I should have said that.

i would correct that slightly though, to say if the ball just struck is known or virtually certain to be OOB, then you cannot play a provisional. I think that is the most accurate?

No, you may play a provisional ball if the original ball MAY be out of bounds. "Virtually certain" leaves open the very slight possibility that the ball may be in bounds and therefore a provisional ball may be played.

 

[North Mimms]

I don't really understand where the "abuse" of playing a provisional mentioned in OP comes from.
If the player finds his provional first and goes ahead and plays it, it's cost him 2 shots.

 

[CliveW]

In this instance (Post #8), which is what I'm referring to, it states that the first provisional WAS OOB. No "Virtually Certain" or "May be" therefore a provisional could not be played.

 

[duncan mackie]

I am aware of this. The reason I posted my comment, was because in post #8 it was stated that a provisional was played when the player was aware that the previous provisional shot was OOB, therefore it could not be a provisional.

the problem is that post #8 slightly contradicted itself, and post 11 ignored the detail of post #8!

as Ethan stated correctly each ball has it's relationship with the previous ball. However, this means that after a provisional ball is known to have been struck OOB the subsequent ball is not a provisional ball in relation to that ball (as implied by post #11) it is provisional on the first ball being found in bounds and would lie 5. If there was doubt about the position of the second ball played from the tee then the player may play a further ball provisionally on finding that, or he may play one as above ie by putting a ball in play provisionally on finding the first ball but disregarding the second.....

simples