Can a caddy mark their players scorecard?

[AmandaJR]

I was asked this today by the Dad of a junior golfer. I thought the answer was yes although the player has responsiblity for it being correct and signs for the score.

Can't find a definitive yes or no on the www though.

 

[Colin L]

I can't think of anything specifically allowing or prohibiting it . But a caddie is part of the player's game, can incur penalties , assists and advises and all that and as such, allowing him to mark would effectively be the same as allowing the player to mark his own card. Since the whole idea of having a marker is to me to have the player's score verified by a disinterested party, it just doesn't make sense to allow a caddie to mark.

Since a marker is defined as someone appointed by the Committtee, I for one would not agree to the appointment of a caddie as marker.

That's just my reasoning without specific chapter and verse to back it up.

 

[AmandaJR]

I agree Colin that it doesn't seem "right" but he caddies for his daughter and really takes control apart from the taking the shot part...

He did say he almost hides what he's doing as no-one else is doing it but like you I can't find a rule of golf that states he can't.

 

[beggsy]

In our junior matches against other clubs kids are not allowed caddies

 

[AmandaJR]

In our junior matches against other clubs kids are not allowed caddies

I think that's a good thing. Not sure he caddies in junior county stuff but does at senior level where she also plays. He's an ex pro and her coach too so very nice to have on the bag.

 

[rulefan]

As the Committee is responsible for appointing the marker and seemingly haven't, then 6-6a/1 applies.

It is something that many committees overlook at all levels of the amateur game.
FCs distributing their cards around the group without any specific instructions from the committee (or an authorised starter) is remedied by a tacit application of the decision.

Committees responsible for competitions where caddies are involved should make it clear that caddies are or are not acceptable. However, the decision only says 'should' so in theory they could DQ the player.

Edit:

Reread the post and realise the parent was just asking.
Te player cannot just choose his marker. If he wants to choose someone other than a FC (as the default 'appointment' by the committee) he must seek permission. The committee should not allow it. There can be no argument from the player. The potential marker (especially a parent) must not be allowed to get involved in any discussion as they have no standing.

 

[AmandaJR]

He was asking but because he tends to do it in practice! What's an "FC"?

 

[Imurg]

Fellow Competitor - keep up Woman!

 

[AmandaJR]

Fellow Competitor - keep up Woman!

Wracked my brain but as usual it's a bit mushy after golf...anytime in fact!!

 

[Imurg]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[Colin L]

I agree Colin that it doesn't seem "right" but he caddies for his daughter and really takes control apart from the taking the shot part...

He did say he almost hides what he's doing as no-one else is doing it but like you I can't find a rule of golf that states he can't.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I was saying more than that it doesn't seem right for a caddie to mark the card of the player. While there isn't a specific rule that says you can or cannot, there is the rule that a marker is appointed by the Committee. It is up to an individual committee to allow a caddie to mark or not. There are very good reasons why it shouldn't.

It is a separate question whether a parent should be allowed to caddie for his/her offspring. There is no Rule about that. It is a matter the Committee could determine in the Conditions of the Competition and there are no doubt many good reasons for saying it isn't permissible. Rulefan is so adamant about it that I suspect there are some good stories of the parent-caddie from hell to be told!

 

[Foxholer]

Amanda. I think you/the Dad need to clarify just exactly what you/he mean/s by 'mark their player's scorecard'.

If you mean 'can a Caddy act as their player's Marker', then I believe the answer is 'No'. Certainly, a separate Marker would be required if the 'group' was only the player and caddy.

If you mean 'can a Caddy fulfil the marking responsibilities of their player' then I wouldn't see a general problem, though it may need to be approved by 'The Committee'.

II suspect there are some good stories of the parent-caddie from hell to be told!

I've certainly heard a few!

Almost as bad as in Tennis

 

[AmandaJR]

He is definitely fulfilling her responsibilities in terms of keeping the scorecard which would both be for her and as a marker for her FC (brain currently working on that one)

Sounds like it is something he needs to clarify before every competition and the best course of action is to get her to take responsibility for it - as she does when she plays in club medals on her own.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A player playing as a one-some - as FC in a two ball stroke play group has dropped out. Plays accompanied by a non-playing non-FC marker to mark his card. At what point does that marker become a caddy or other form of advisor that deems the marker to be 'as the player'? If I, as a marker (and let's say I know the course well when the player doesn't), gives advice to the player without him asking - or indeed if he does ask - where do I stand and what should the player do (to me)?

 

[Colin L]

A player playing as a one-some - as FC in a two ball stroke play group has dropped out. Plays accompanied by a non-playing non-FC marker to mark his card. At what point does that marker become a caddy or other form of advisor that deems the marker to be 'as the player'? If I, as a marker (and let's say I know the course well when the player doesn't), gives advice to the player without him asking - or indeed if he does ask - where do I stand and what should the player do (to me)?

The player can only ask advice from his caddy or partner. If he asked advice from his marker in this situation he would be in breach of 8-1 but the situation shouldn't occur in the first place in my view because the Committee should not be allowing a caddie to mark his "employer's" card. And a marker couldn't really start off as such and somehow 'become" a caddie.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The player can only ask advice from his caddy or partner. If he asked advice from his marker in this situation he would be in breach of 8-1 but the situation shouldn't occur in the first place in my view because the Committee should not be allowing a caddie to mark his "employer's" card. And a marker couldn't really start off as such and somehow 'become" a caddie.

OK - so let's say in an Open strokeplay comp at my track I volunteer to walk round with a singleton to mark his card as his FC(s) have droppped out. Singleton doesn't know his way around my track. As his marker I can give him general advice about course layout, distances, where bunkers, ponds, ditches etc are. But what if I say to him without him asking 'your best line is down the left' or 'this putt swings a lot more from left to right than it looks'. I am giving him advice and he is not allowed to accept advice other from a caddy or playing partner. What should the player do?

 

[rulefan]

From Decision 8-1/24

The player should take action to stop this irregular procedure. If he does not do so, he should, in equity (Rule 1-4), incur a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play in view of the purpose of Rule 8-1.

 

[Colin L]

From Decision 8-1/24

The player should take action to stop this irregular procedure. If he does not do so, he should, in equity (Rule 1-4), incur a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play in view of the purpose of Rule 8-1.

In other words, he should tell you to shut up or its going to cost him strokes and you a trip to A&E to remove the wedge from where it hurts.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In other words, he should tell you to shut up or its going to cost him strokes and you a trip to A&E to remove the wedge from where it hurts.

OK - that's good. Just that a lot of times the rules are written in a way that can appear to be unfair to the player suffering the penalty that ends up being applied. In a circumstance such as that I describe I guessed that that was all the player could do but it doesn't really protect him. I suppose if I was the player and I told my marker to 'shut it!' and he didn't I would mark my ball where it lay; walk in; report the marker and ask for a replacement. But would that constitute a breach of the rule prohibiting me delaying play without permission? - or walking off the course in the middle of a round without permission?

 

[Colin L]

......I suppose if I was the player and I told my marker to 'shut it!' and he didn't .......

Have you no confidence in the wedge treatment?