Bugbear of mine

[evahakool]

Shaft lengths again, in this months mag. we have tips section on griping down on the shaft of a driver ( not a bad tip in its self).


I assume it's a pro giving us this tip telling us that the tour pros use a shaft length a inch or more shorter than the recreational golfer.

Farther on in the mag we have a review of the new Nike Vapor driver at a cost of £299.99 also three other clubs to test with a price of £349 with no mention of the drivers length,all that was touched on was forgiveness recommending if you hit off the heel or toe you shouldn't be useing the Nike driver.

Also the new Mizuno advertisement for the JPX EZ driver which will set you back £349, I fully understand the need for advertising in a magazine but to carry these advertisements without giving more information about shaft lengths is wrong IMO.

Now I now Joel Tadman wrote a very good article on driver lengths recently, but GM recently asked what we thought could help in the magazine, I would like to see some advice given about lengths in every review of a new driver they do.


Until a more informative review is given most golfers are still going to get advice that could be detrimental to their game.

 

[Slab]

Agree, as soon as a product review for a driver starts listing the CC head size, loft degrees etc then the length should be included too

A cynical chap would say that to leave it out almost suggests an attempt to deceive

 

[evahakool]

Agree, as soon as a product review for a driver starts listing the CC head size, loft degrees etc then the length should be included too

A cynical chap would say that to leave it out almost suggests an attempt to deceive

My sentiments as well.

Now I know GM have done articles in the past regarding shaft lengths and custom fittings but I feel this doesn't go far enough.

I picked a old magazine at random ( the October edition) there were two reviews of drivers, one the Big Bertha 816 with a cost of £429 and one of the Great big Bertha coming in at £369. Whilst the reviews gave a comprehensive review nowhere was the shaft length mentioned .

Every advertisement for drivers in magazines ( GM are not alone in this) is a promotion for more distance with very little information given to driver lengths, it is my view that these drivers are not suitable for the vast majority of golfers in the UK.

I understand without the revenue from advertising the magazine couldn't sustain itself, but given these advertisements carry drivers with a cost of in Excess of £350 I feel the magazine has a responsibility to give more information regarding shaft lengths.

So I would like to see in every review of a driver the information that if you don't get fitted for a driver this club will be of no use to the majority of golfers because the shaft is to long.

 

[Slab]

..........
So I would like to see in every review of a driver the information that if you don't get fitted for a driver this club will be of no use to the majority of golfers because the shaft is to long.

Not sure we need the disclaimer portion

I think providing details on the length are including in an article when listing other specifications like shaft weight, club-head CC, loft etc etc then at least the consumer is able to make any decisions based on being informed (without having to go to another website to get technical specs just to find out the length)

 

[sawtooth]

I couldn't agree more.

Surely it's in the manufacturers interests to carefully advise people about shaft length.

It can't be good for both player and manufacturer when there is a big mismatch and the customer ends up with a club he can't hit.

Maybe a caution sticker on the club that says "to obtain best results get custom fitted." or such like.

Do they do that already or is that taking it too far?

Not sure but more guidance is needed I agree.

 

[evahakool]

Not sure we need the disclaimer portion

I think providing details on the length are including in an article when listing other specifications like shaft weight, club-head CC, loft etc etc then at least the consumer is able to make any decisions based on being informed (without having to go to another website to get technical specs just to find out the length)

I think the disclaimer portion is the most vital information , maybe not worded as such but better information is the key point.

 

[tsped83]

I agree with the sentiment, but not sure manufacturers would ever make a point of drawing your attention to shaft length in an advert. However, I agree that it should be highlighted in a review for sure. That said, all drivers are around 45.5/46 inches these days so they're all comparative. The whole forgiveness argument for drivers is also moot for me, the face forgiveness is not going to square the club for you or keep it on plane or whatever, whereas a shorter shaft should certainly help! Hence why I ditched the driver for a mini!

 

[evahakool]

I agree with the sentiment, but not sure manufacturers would ever make a point of drawing your attention to shaft length in an advert. However, I agree that it should be highlighted in a review for sure. That said, all drivers are around 45.5/46 inches these days so they're all comparative. The whole forgiveness argument for drivers is also moot for me, the face forgiveness is not going to square the club for you or keep it on plane or whatever, whereas a shorter shaft should certainly help! Hence why I ditched the driver for a mini!

I agree the manufacturers won't give the information about shaft lengths because there main selling point is all about length, I'm glad you agree that the information should be given in reviews .

 

[One Planer]

While I agree with you regarding shaft length, advertising is a tricky business.

When you're paying for magazine space, or any advertising space for that matter, you want maximum bang for your buck. Nice pictures catchy tag line, headline figures.

If you advert has done it's job, people will look further into the product, be that thru shop visits, fitting/demo days or any other means.

As I say, I agree 100% with you that it is a factor. I have just moved back up to 45.5" from 44." and , if I'm being honest, I'm loving it.

 

[Sybez]

Aren't all the club spec's on those things called websites?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It is very easy to find out the clubs specs of each club for each manufacturer - just check on their website

 

[Tiger]

Aren't all the club spec's on those things called websites?

Precisely. If you pick up a magazine and see an advert for the new Nike driver, march straight down to your local golf retailer and hand over 350 sheets then you are a mug. Who does that!?!?

The tip on driver length and gripping down is a helpful one for someone struggling for control. But what if I play at a course with wide open fairways very little danger and I want to maximise distance.

Sorry for the rant but this thread needs a disclaimer. Disproportionate bugbear for individual with no desire to research and minimal understanding of the key concepts of marketing or journalism

 

[evahakool]

Precisely. If you pick up a magazine and see an advert for the new Nike driver, march straight down to your local golf retailer and hand over 350 sheets then you are a mug. Who does that!?!?

The tip on driver length and gripping down is a helpful one for someone struggling for control. But what if I play at a course with wide open fairways very little danger and I want to maximise distance.

Sorry for the rant but this thread needs a disclaimer. Disproportionate bugbear for individual with no desire to research and minimal understanding of the key concepts of marketing or journalism

Why the need to get so personal ?

All you know about me is through this forum , you have no idea what research I have done shaft lengths.

I know enough about advertising to know to never believe anything a company says about a product because they won't give you any information that's negative.

The advertising of golf drivers over the past 5/10 years is basically make them longer do robotic testing with them and say this new model will go farther, a flawed model IMO ,manufacturers should try a different approach ,produce more drivers with the correct shaft and market in the right way ie pointing out this driver will help you reduce your h/c because it's the right length.

As for your other uncalled for comment about journalism, a good journalist would give the reader a unbiased imformative article , and in golf magazines you are not getting all the information in reviews you should be getting.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Produce more drivers with the correct shaft ?!

Correct shaft for who exactly ? Right length for who ?

Again it doesn't take much to find out the length of a specific club.

Why would they market the club and highlight the shaft length ? Not many are interested in that

 

[Tiger]

Why the need to get so personal ?

All you know about me is through this forum , you have no idea what research I have done shaft lengths.

I know enough about advertising to know to never believe anything a company says about a product because they won't give you any information that's negative.

The advertising of golf drivers over the past 5/10 years is basically make them longer do robotic testing with them and say this new model will go farther, a flawed model IMO ,manufacturers should try a different approach ,produce more drivers with the correct shaft and market in the right way ie pointing out this driver will help you reduce your h/c because it's the right length.

As for your other uncalled for comment about journalism, a good journalist would give the reader a unbiased imformative article , and in golf magazines you are not getting all the information in reviews you should be getting.

Not getting personal but why should GM print every facet about every club! They constantly advocate readers getting custom fitted so why you'd expect a correlation between a tip for novice golfers, reviews of drivers and magazine advertising (where they have pretty much no control) is beyond me. I don't care what the stock shaft length is. Why? Because when I go shopping for golf kit I generally tend to get fitted these days. If the fitter said you'd benefit from a shorter shaft great but why do I need GM to print in its article that the stock shaft is 46 inches?!?!?

Sometimes it feels as though people on this forum feel as though the magazine should be written for them and not cater for the tens of thousands who buy it monthly...

 

[evahakool]

Not getting personal but why should GM print every facet about every club! They constantly advocate readers getting custom fitted so why you'd expect a correlation between a tip for novice golfers, reviews of drivers and magazine advertising (where they have pretty much no control) is beyond me. I don't care what the stock shaft length is. Why? Because when I go shopping for golf kit I generally tend to get fitted these days. If the fitter said you'd benefit from a shorter shaft great but why do I need GM to print in its article that the stock shaft is 46 inches?!?!?

Sometimes it feels as though people on this forum feel as though the magazine should be written for them and not cater for the tens of thousands who buy it monthly...

And of the tens of thousands who buy the magazine who knows what percentive of these of these get custom fitted? And give much attention to club specs.

I know at my club there is very few who have had a custom fit and get there clubs online or at a retailer .

I agree that the magazine should cater to all its readers and not just to forum and I'm sure they do this, all I'm asking is when a review is done is to give all the relevant information.

 

[Tiger]

And of the tens of thousands who buy the magazine who knows what percentive of these of these get custom fitted? And give much attention to club specs.

I know at my club there is very few who have had a custom fit and get there clubs online or at a retailer .

I agree that the magazine should cater to all its readers and not just to forum and I'm sure they do this, all I'm asking is when a review is done is to give all the relevant information.

But based on what you've just said is shaft length relevant information? I'm not sure it is. What the stock shaft in drivers probably is but I'm not convinced other specs are. In the mag they are limited on word count - every. word. counts. It's REALLY hard to write an article that's 100-150 words long on a new club that explains all the core information about who it's suited for, the technical innovation behind it, it's material construction, how it performs let alone putting in extra info like shaft length...

 

[evahakool]

Tiger

You may not need the information about driver lengths but what about the thousands who have little knowledge of clubs also anyone new coming into the game.

You ask why you would need information from a magazine to tell you about shaft lengths , if you read anything by Tom Wishorn who is one of the most respected club makers in the UK he maintains that over 90% of golfers have the wrong length of shafts in there drivers.

Now given this information I would have thought it was one of the most important points when giving a driver review.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have seen some magazines where the stock shaft length is mentioned, so I don't see why it couldn't be included

If magazines are happy to print all of the available lofts, LH/RH info then why is it a hardship to include the stock length as well?

Tiger

You may not need the information about driver lengths but what about the thousands who have little knowledge of clubs also anyone new coming into the game.

You ask why you would need information from a magazine to tell you about shaft lengths , if you read anything by Tom Wishorn who is one of the most respected club makers in the UK he maintains that over 90% of golfers have the wrong length of shafts in there drivers.

Now given this information I would have thought it was one of the most important points when giving a driver review.

Source for this?

 

[Tiger]

I cannot believe I have a) been drawn into this debate and b) am perpetuating it but hey ho

Tom, Dick and Harry are keen golfers. They all buy Golf Monthly regularly, though Dick lives up to his name by buying it over the counter rather than subscribing.

They are all in the market for a new driver. Tom is a golf gear geek. He thoroughly researches all new brands and on picking up Golf Monthly he knows a lot about all the equipment reviewed. All the kit in his bag is fully custom fitted. He reads the review about the new Ping G and based on all the other research he's been doing he adds it to his shortlist to test before getting a full custom fit at Gainsborough

Dick has to have all the latest kit. If it's new it must be better and he has to have it, at launch. He sees it in the magazine and on the day of release heads down to his local AG has a couple of swishes on the indoor launch monitor. Loves it and buys one.

Harry is new to golf. He is struggling with his driving and always reads the instruction section of GM. He has used an old Ping G2 he bought second hand but fears the shaft maybe a little soft for him. He speaks to his teaching pro and also mentions how he gas been gripping down a bit following the GM article and that's been helping with his accuracy. His teaching pro is a Ping stockist and Harry ends up buying a G driver after a fitting with his pro.

They all end up with the same club and I bet none of them are dashing onto an Internet forum to berate GM for not giving them info on the shaft length of their new club in their review...

I honestly don't see how you can equate knowing the stock shaft length and getting fitted for the right shaft length. AND as I've said before GM have run numerous articles on the importance of fitting!!!!!!!