Bridge over penalty area

[KenL]

I believe that a bridge over a penalty area is in the penalty area and free relief is not available.

Is that the case in the attached photograph where there are yellow stakes either side of a bridge?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[rulefan]

The stakes indicate that the bridge and path are not in the PA

 

[KenL]

The stakes indicate that the bridge and path are not in the PA

Thank you, that is what I thought.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I believe that a bridge over a penalty area is in the penalty area and free relief is not available.

Is that the case in the attached photograph where there are yellow stakes either side of a bridge?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

View attachment 62330

Stakes show that the penalty areas are either side of the bridge and not the bridge itself

 

[Steven Rules]

I have a very different perspective. The intention of the Committee is ambiguous. The positioning of the stakes is a source of confusion or doubt, as evidenced by the fact that the OP even needed to ask the question.

The Committee could remove the ambiguity by painting a matching pair of yellow dots in the right spot.

 

[Steven Rules]

Not the original question but, if the bridge is not in the penalty area, then neither is a ball that comes to rest under the bridge.

 

[KenL]

I have a very different perspective. The intention of the Committee is ambiguous. The positioning of the stakes is a source of confusion or doubt, as evidenced by the fact that the OP even needed to ask the question.

The Committee could remove the ambiguity by painting a matching pair of yellow dots in the right spot.

What do you mean please? Paint dots where the stakes are?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I have a very different perspective. The intention of the Committee is ambiguous. The positioning of the stakes is a source of confusion or doubt, as evidenced by the fact that the OP even needed to ask the question.

The Committee could remove the ambiguity by painting a matching pair of yellow dots in the right spot.

Where would you put the yellow dots

I can actually see why it would be confusing


A local club has a bridge like that but on their card they state that the bridge in not in the hazard and is an immovable object

 

[KenL]

Where would you put the yellow dots

I can actually see why it would be confusing


A local club has a bridge like that but on their card they state that the bridge in not in the hazard and is an immovable object

I hope they use “penalty area” rather than “hazard”.

 

[Steven Rules]

What do you mean please? Paint dots where the stakes are?

Where would you put the yellow dots

If the bridge is in the penalty area then paint a dot on the ground on the mid point of the path at each end of the bridge. Or move the stakes several yards away from the bridge on both sides.

If the bridge is not in the penalty area then paint a yellow dot halfway along the 'outside' wall on each side of the bridge.

 

[KenL]

If the bridge is in the penalty area then paint a dot on the ground on the mid pount of the path at each end of the bridge. Or move the stakes several yards away from the bridge on both sides.

If the bridge is not in the penalty area then paint a yellow dot halfway along the 'outside' wall on each side of the bridge.

Moving the stakes several yards away makes parts of the little streams not part of the penalty area, no?
If that is the case, everyone could claim that is where their ball crossed.

 

[rulefan]

I have a very different perspective. The intention of the Committee is ambiguous. The positioning of the stakes is a source of confusion or doubt, as evidenced by the fact that the OP even needed to ask the question.

The Committee could remove the ambiguity by painting a matching pair of yellow dots in the right spot.

I have encountered such bridges on many courses and at many county tournaments. I have never had any issues or queries.

 

[Steven Rules]

I hope they use “penalty area” rather than “hazard”.

....and "immovable obstruction" rather than "immovable object".

 

[Steven Rules]

I have encountered such bridges on many courses and at many county tournaments. I have never had any issues or queries.

There is a first time for everything. See #1.

So the Committee at those tournaments was happy that a ball coming to rest under the bridge was not in the penalty area? Amazing.

If the Rules and course markings and associated guidance only needed to account for what one individual has ever encountered then the documentation would be much slimmer and simpler.

 

[Steven Rules]

Moving the stakes several yards away makes parts of the little streams not part of the penalty area, no?
If that is the case, everyone could claim that is where their ball crossed.

In that specific layout, moving the stakes may not be appropriate. Resort to the original suggestion of a painted dot midway across the path at each end.

 

[doublebogey7]

By definition the parts of a bridge over a body of water is in a penalty area and therefore relief is not available for a ball lying on a bridge. I am not aware of a MLR that enables a committee to determine otherwise. Placing red or yellow posts either side of a bridge most certainly does not change that.

 

[Steven Rules]

That's not quite what the definition says. The edge of a penalty area extends both up above the ground and down below the ground. This means that all ground and anything else (such as any natural or artificial object) inside the edge is part of the penalty area, whether on, above or below the surface of the ground.

 

[doublebogey7]

That's not quite what the definition says. The edge of a penalty area extends both up above the ground and down below the ground. This means that all ground and anything else (such as any natural or artificial object) inside the edge is part of the penalty area, whether on, above or below the surface of the ground.

If you are replying to me, I am not sure how the words you have used result in a different meaning to my words, in terms of what is being asked here.

 

[rulefan]

By definition the parts of a bridge over a body of water is in a penalty area and therefore relief is not available for a ball lying on a bridge. I am not aware of a MLR that enables a committee to determine otherwise. Placing red or yellow posts either side of a bridge most certainly does not change that.

A Penalty Area is defined as an "open watercourse".

 

[doublebogey7]

A Penalty Area is defined as an "open watercourse".

There's rather a lot more to it than that, perhaps you ought to take a read of the latest definition.