Both fellow competitors in a three-ball drop out through injury

[delc]

We recently had an occasion where one member of a three-ball playing group in a medal had to withdraw during the round due to injury. What would happen if both FC's had to pull out? Would the remaining player be allowed to drop back into the following group so that he had a scorer, or would this be a breàch of Rule 6-3b? Seems a bit unfair if this is the case.

 

[duncan mackie]

It's the committees responsibility to provide a marker - if they all drop out the player can co-opt anyone he can!

In the example you cite it would be fine to re-arrange matches as required to comply with the need for a marker ie drop back and either join the next game or split to 2x2 balls.

Probably a good idea to call an ambulance for the player who's so injures he can't get round as your marker though. ..

 

[Colin L]

By coincidence, I was asked the very same question in the clubhouse last week by a member who was left on his own - one player didn't turn up and other player felt unwell and had to go in.

You should note that 6-3b states unless the Committee authorizes or ratifies a change. I'll put the question back to you - if you were the Committee member available at the time would you ratify the change of group - retrospectively?

[Hah! Too late - Duncan has answered it for you.]

 

[delc]

It's the committees responsibility to provide a marker - if they all drop out the player can co-opt anyone he can!

In the example you cite it would be fine to re-arrange matches as required to comply with the need for a marker ie drop back and either join the next game or split to 2x2 balls.

Probably a good idea to call an ambulance for the player who's so injures he can't get round as your marker though. ..

The injury in this case was a muscle strain or tear in the player's back that went into spasm, so that he could no longer make a proper golf swing and was in a lot of pain. He was able to hobble off the course, but couldn't complete the round.

 

[duncan mackie]

By coincidence, I was asked the very same question in the clubhouse last week by a member who was left on his own - one player didn't turn up and other player felt unwell and had to go in.

You should note that 6-3b states unless the Committee authorizes or ratifies a change. I'll put the question back to you - if you were the Committee member available at the time would you ratify the change of group - retrospectively?

[Hah! Too late - Duncan has answered it for you.]

Ratifies being important as it shows that the rule contemplates the committee having to deal with things after the event.

 

[Colin L]

In effect, Del, if a player makes a sensible arrangement to get round a situation like that such that every score on his card can be signed for and he can continue with and complete his game, he is going to have that arrangement ratified as far as I'm concerned

 

[williamalex1]

As long as they split into 2 x 2 balls no probs . We're not allowed to play 4 balls in our medal stroke play comps.
Basically to prevent match play being played while playing in a stroke play comp.

 

[Fyldewhite]

As long as they split into 2 x 2 balls no probs . We're not allowed to play 4 balls in our medal stroke play comps.
Basically to prevent match play being played while playing in a stroke play comp.

Blimey, we play in fours in our medals and the balls are usually thrown up on the first to decide pairs and a fiver a corner it is.....what's wrong with having an informal "game" providing strokeplay rules are followed? Keeps the interest up on a bad day and simply adds to the enjoyment of the day(especially if your side is buying the beer with their money!).

 

[williamalex1]

Blimey, we play in fours in our medals and the balls are usually thrown up on the first to decide pairs and a fiver a corner it is.....what's wrong with having an informal "game" providing strokeplay rules are followed? Keeps the interest up on a bad day and simply adds to the enjoyment of the day(especially if your side is buying the beer with their money!).

I agree and everybody does it but it is against the rules to mix stroke and matchplay.Also if the format is 3 balls you will get DQd for playing in a 4 ball,

 

[delc]

I agree and everybody does it but it is against the rules to mix stroke and matchplay.Also if the format is 3 balls you will get DQd for playing in a 4 ball,

Most clubs play stroke play competitions in three-balls because it is quicker. Please quote the rule that says that a four-ball group couldn't be formed in the situation I described where a player is left without a marker!

 

[Fyldewhite]

It would be a harsh committee who would not ratify a decision taken by players out on the course to join up and make a 4 in such circumstances.

Regarding the "playing a match" question I think this is a perfect example of where "the rules" are taken too literally. The rules are indeed clear on this but essentially only cover competition play. It could never be sanctioned to play two competition rounds (strokeplay/matchplay) simultaneously but so long as the matchplay element is just a casual game then there's no harm done. I've certainly never seen an issue arise in 20 odd years of Saturday comps.

 

[williamalex1]

Most clubs play stroke play competitions in three-balls because it is quicker. Please quote the rule that says that a four-ball group couldn't be formed in the situation I described where a player is left without a marker!

I never said it was a rule , its a condition of the comp laid down by the committee. All 4 players get DQd for playing the wrong format.
The 18th green is right in front of the club house window where the officials sit and watch.

 

[Fyldewhite]

its a condition of the comp laid down by the committee. All 4 players get DQd for playing the wrong format.

It's a very badly written one then.....if the rules of golf can, and do, leave some "wriggle room" then I'm pretty sure CoC should too.

 

[Colin L]

I never said it was a rule , its a condition of the comp laid down by the committee. All 4 players get DQd for playing the wrong format.
The 18th green is right in front of the club house window where the officials sit and watch.

The rules you play to in a competition comprise, by definition, the Rules of Golf, the Decisions, Local Rules and Conditions of Competition.

As explained, the Committee has the authority through Rule 6-3b to ratify a change in groups and it would be open to your Committee to ratify a group of 4 in circumstances where a player is the only one left in his group and is consequently without a marker. The principle to apply , I'd suggest, is that a player who is left on his own, through no fault of his own, should be able to continue in the competition. If no-one is around who can authorise a change at the time of its being needed, the Committee should in my view, ratify the change in groups afterwards.

 

[williamalex1]

I agree , but i'm afraid because there have been quite a few disqualified in the past . I can't imagine the council changing their minds.

 

[Colin L]

I agree , but i'm afraid because there have been quite a few disqualified in the past . I can't imagine the council changing their minds.

It entirely depends on the circumstances of these disqualifications. This specific incident isn't a matter of your Council changing its mind about not allowing 4 ball groups in general, but of its applying Rule 6-3b to the particular circumstances of a player who finds himself through no fault of his own part way through his round with no-one to mark his card. I'd be appalled if your Council would not ratify the rearrangement of a group to allow him to carry on.

Perhaps you should ask one of them in the bar? Or at the window while they sit and watch.

 

[delc]

On equiry, I found that our club doesn't actually have any written conditions of competition. Everything is done on precedent and how various types of competition were run before. This recently came to a head in our Seniors Scratch Championship, which was won by a reserve entry who had not gone out in handicap order. The guy who came second has made a written complaint about this to the club committee, claiming that reserve entries should not be allowed in club championships. I was the scorer for this competition, but nobody seemed to know what the precedents where! I believe that conditions of competition are an agenda item for the next committee meeting!

 

[Colin L]

The only thing that should cause any discussion at the meeting is who is going to be volunteered to write them.

 

[williamalex1]

It entirely depends on the circumstances of these disqualifications. This specific incident isn't a matter of your Council changing its mind about not allowing 4 ball groups in general, but of its applying Rule 6-3b to the particular circumstances of a player who finds himself through no fault of his own part way through his round with no-one to mark his card. I'd be appalled if your Council would not ratify the rearrangement of a group to allow him to carry on.

Perhaps you should ask one of them in the bar? Or at the window while they sit and watch.

It's just as easy to make it 2 x 2 balls, rather than have 1 x 4ball in the field.

 

[delc]

It's just as easy to make it 2 x 2 balls, rather than have 1 x 4ball in the field.

But then you are breaking up a designated playing group! Could that not also be a DQ offence?