Better or worse

[DaveM]

Ok so I am sad. But been bored stiff and doing a lot of reading. (sprained ankle so can't get out). It seems that the average handicap has not really changed, over the last 20 yrs or so(don't know how true it is just what I have read).

It does seem odd to me considering the advance in clubs, balls etc; within that time. So are we getting lazy or what. Or just a case of you can read whatever you like into figures?

 

[JustOne]

Traffic jam effect.. more people join the back end whilst the front are slower in getting away. Courses are also (starting to get) longer to counter the effect of clubs and balls. Obvioulsy add to that mags teaching the wrong stuff and it pretty much ain't going to budge.

 

[USER1999]

Also combined with the average golfer being averse to doing any practice at all, and most not even having any lessons. All the club tech in the world can't make up for this.

 

[DaveM]

The mags get it wrong. How can that be they are the experts are they not ...


Someone once defined an exspert as an Ex= hasbin, spert= a drip under pressure.:ears: ...

 

[JustOne]

Also combined with the average golfer being averse to doing any practice at all, and most not even having any lessons..

Oi! Did you have to make it personal?





...Haha!!! LOL

No offence Mog but did you take AGE into consideration?... more pensioners play








..... and youngsters of course

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I'm no statistician (sp?) but if you have a fixed top end (28 for men) it will affect the outcome of any average calc's.
After all, how many 28 handicappers would really be alot higher if there was no ceiling?
Maybe there wouldn't be quite so many now as there would have been before the new technology?

 

[trevor]

Does anyone know what an average handicap is? I was once told that if you were 18 and under you were in the top 10% but never found out if this was true or not.

 

[chrisd]

Add to that the painfully slow decrease in handicaps when submitting good cards because of the SSS and CSS.



Chris

 

[Mungoscorner]

A big factor would also be how handicaps are decided.The system was a lot less flexible in the past,which meant a lot of people were playing off handicaps they were unable to play tne exceptional round and a player could be struggling for the rest of the season.

 

[Hobbit]

Depending on which site you believe;

Ave gents handicap in the UK is 20.2, ave ladies h'cap is 29.??

In the U.S. its 16.1 for men but it is acknowledged that they generally play a couple of shots worse than an equivalent 16 in the UK.

I too have too much time on my hands and can't get out for golf.

 

[CMAC]

Depending on which site you believe;

Ave gents handicap in the UK is 20.2, ave ladies h'cap is 29.??

In the U.S. its 16.1 for men but it is acknowledged that they generally play a couple of shots worse than an equivalent 16 in the UK.

I too have too much time on my hands and can't get out for golf.

seems very high, no disrespect to any high handicaps but I'm surprised the Average is above 1 shot per hole

 

[SocketRocket]

From what I experience I would say it is around 22. This is taking in account all handicap golfers.

I keep hearing that golf is an easy game, it's not, its freaking difficult. The margin for error in swinging a golf club on a six foot radius into a little ball is very small to make a good shot, no wonder people find it hard.

As mentioned many people never take lessons and just dont understand what they do wrong, they want to improve but keep repeating the same old swing expecting different results.

Taking the stock answer of "You need to go and see a Pro" is also not the answer to me, so many people take lessons, many lessons; but still cant comprehend what they are doing wrong.

If the ruling bodies want golfers to play better and lower their handicaps then IMO they need to think hard on what can be done to improve the way people learn the game. It seems to me the current way is either unattractive, ineffective or just not working.

 

[bobmac]

If the ruling bodies want golfers to play better and lower their handicaps then IMO they need to think hard on what can be done to improve the way people learn the game.

I wonder what percentage of golfers are quite happy to bimble along shooting in the 90s ?
Think of the number of seniors at your club and ask do they take lessons to get better and practice hard or are they quite happy with the company and the fresh air.
I'm not sure they really care what the ruling bodies think.

Now if you were to find out what the average h/cap is of golfers under say 50 was, I think the figure will be a lot lower than 22

 

[G1BB0]

make me below average

its a crap hobby anyway

 

[Mungoscorner]

I wonder what percentage of golfers are quite happy to bimble along shooting in the 90s ?
Think of the number of seniors at your club and ask do they take lessons to get better and practice hard or are they quite happy with the company and the fresh air.
I'm not sure they really care what the ruling bodies think.

Now if you were to find out what the average h/cap is of golfers under say 50 was, I think the figure will be a lot lower than 22

Spot on Bob.

 

[Dave B]

How many players have you played with tell you they are a 20 handicap only for you to discover if they are a 20, somebody has been very kind

On the other hand you also have those in competitions who say they are a 20 and play more like a 15 handicap :fore:

 

[JustOne]

"You need to go and see a Pro" is also not the answer to me, so many people take lessons, many lessons; but still cant comprehend what they are doing wrong.

If the ruling bodies want golfers to play better and lower their handicaps then IMO they need to think hard on what can be done to improve the way people learn the game.

I agree and the internet is changing people's opinion. The way the system currently works is your club has a pro that people use for lessons, some have positive lessons and some have negative and never go back. The positive ones will ensure that the pro gets regular business, the negative ones will either go elsewhere, never have another lesson OR go back to the same pro eventually - it's a captive market. Rarely though does someone who belongs to a club go to another club for a lesson.... I think that is changing, but everso slowly, potentially the tuition you will receive may change... but I expect that'll be slowly too.

i'd rather get the facts from the web and then ask my pro about them... things like trackman etc have been invaluable in learning not only the truth but how much your pro knows/understands.

Maybe they should offer two types of lesson and advertise tham as "Properly" or "Quick fix".

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree and the internet is changing people's opinion. The way the system currently works is your club has a pro that people use for lessons, some have positive lessons and some have negative and never go back. The positive ones will ensure that the pro gets regular business, the negative ones will either go elsewhere, never have another lesson OR go back to the same pro eventually - it's a captive market. Rarely though does someone who belongs to a club go to another club for a lesson.... I think that is changing, but everso slowly, potentially the tuition you will receive may change... but I expect that'll be slowly too.

i'd rather get the facts from the web and then ask my pro about them... things like trackman etc have been invaluable in learning not only the truth but how much your pro knows/understands.

Maybe they should offer two types of lesson and advertise tham as "Properly" or "Quick fix".

Sorry James,

I rarely disagree with too much you say on here, but a lot of this anti-pro bashing and teaching the wrong way is off beam in my opinion. A lot of players go to to a pro for the band-aid fix to sort something out quickly (shanks, tops etc) and what a fix for that problem. They don't give two hoots about ball flight laws, weight position, S&T or any of that stuff. It has its place (potentially ) but it isn't relevant to 90% of those looking for a lesson

I may be wrong, but all this talk to the many casual lurkers out there, will be off putting and may well put many off getting a lesson for fear of it being over whelming, too technical or them not being shown what is wrong and I think that is a dangerous path to set people on.

As you know I have been known to partake of the odd lesson or two and I've had three teachers in the last few years. I only dropped the first guy as he was having regular reconstructive leg surgery and so was never around for long period (rehab) to teach. The second guy got me down from 18-11 and was very technically minded and knowss of the ball flight laws. Despite this and his analytical approach never once did we discuss the pros and cons of old vs new but I made gradual if unspectacular progress. However I decided I needed a change and the new guy is someone who uses the Plane Truth method and gain it has no mention of ball flight laws. In one lesson he has gotten me hitting it more solid, longer and without so much deviation left and right.

I am not knocking what you say to be wrong but I do think there is a need to temper this mantra that going to a pro is not always a good idea if they don't teach you the new law way. There are lots of established pros up and down the land woh teach in a set way and have many talented players on their books. It's about finding a means to an end

 

[JustOne]

Homer, you take out of your game what you want. I'd rather keep mine and bomb it past you whilst trying to break par not 90.

 

[NWJocko]

Homer, you take out of your game what you want. I'd rather keep mine and bomb it past you whilst trying to break par not 90.

Not sure if this is tongue in cheek or not but I sort of agree with what Homer was getting at.

I alluded to it in the S&T resistance thread.

I get what you're saying. It's interesting.

However you do come across as extremely smug about the whole thing, saying things like "PGA Pro's are wrong" is not particularly accurate really is it? Some may not teach the new ball flight laws, does that mean everything they are doing is "wrong"?

I enjoy reading about golf but I would enjoy your threads a bit more if you weren't constantly trying one-upsmanship, particularly showing pretty much a total lack of respect to Bobmac's opinion (who I don't know from Adam by the way) whilst asking or expecting everyone to listen to yours.

Golf is very much not a case of "right" and "wrong" in my opinion. There are thousands of different ways to approach the game and get the ball round.

I don't care about ball flight laws etc but can hit a fade and a draw no problem.