Bending the rules

[Simbo]

Like I said, he was right and I was wrong, I apologised.
I do think if that had been his intention though he should have been absolutely clear about it on the tee.

So how many of you would force someone to play their second ball if they didn't actually mention the word provisional when they played it??? Then find their first ball is fine.

 

[Ross61]

So if I was to fluff up a shot off the tee, and it was 5ft in front of me on a par 5.... i could just put another ball in play, but that would be my third shot, even if I could see the ball in front of me???

correct, but in that situation you would probably be best playing your original unless it is in deep rough or another horrid position.

As it happens this weekend a fc completely shanked his drive on the 1st into a bush no more than 6 feet away. He picked his ball out of the bush and teed up for his 3rd shot

 

[woody69]

I'm a bit confused by this so can someone explain? I was under the impression if you are playing a 2nd ball it must be declared a provisional?

Is it still a 2 stroke penalty?

Also something I've been thinking about recently- if you find 1st ball can't you actually just take that ball and rehit from tee and it's only a 1 stroke penalty(as an unplayable) isn't this better than 3 from the tee as you're saving a stroke- obviously this is only ideal if you don't have far to walk from tee to look for it

I'm confused by your counting here.

- You hit your first into the rubbish / shank it just off the tee - 1
- You decide you don't want to play that one so put another ball on the tee - 2
- You hit your ball off the tee and it sails 375 yards down the fairway - 3

You've played 3 shots here. 1 duff, 2 penalty, 3 hit. There is no "2-stroke" penalty.

This is exactly the same if you do the following:

- You hit your first into the rubbish / shank it just off the tee - 1
- You walk forward, find it, pick it up and walk back to the teeing ground, put it down on a tee again - 2
- You hit your ball off the tee and it sails 375 yards down the fairway - 3

No advantage / disadvantage to either approach (except not discarding a ball I guess). Both are "3 off the tee"

 

[rosecott]

Like I said, he was right and I was wrong, I apologised.
I do think if that had been his intention though he should have been absolutely clear about it on the tee.

So how many of you would force someone to play their second ball if they didn't actually mention the word provisional when they played it??? Then find their first ball is fine.

Perhaps he did make it clear. Your words "at this point to be perfectly honest I hadn't really paid attention to what he said as he was playing his second ball" leave open the clear possibility that he acted correctly.

I certainly know a number of players who would mutter something like "reload" and would hope to hedge their bets by claiming they meant "provisional" - or not if that turned out to be a better option.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Like I said, he was right and I was wrong, I apologised.
I do think if that had been his intention though he should have been absolutely clear about it on the tee.

So how many of you would force someone to play their second ball if they didn't actually mention the word provisional when they played it??? Then find their first ball is fine.

If a FC or opponent goes to reload without declaring it as "provisional" I generally ask them explicitly whether the ball is provisional or not.

 

[North Mimms]

Like I said, he was right and I was wrong, I apologised.
I do think if that had been his intention though he should have been absolutely clear about it on the tee.

So how many of you would force someone to play their second ball if they didn't actually mention the word provisional when they played it??? Then find their first ball is fine.

Perhaps he did make it clear. Your words "at this point to be perfectly honest I hadn't really paid attention to what he said as he was playing his second ball" leave open the clear possibility that he acted correctly.

I certainly know a number of players who would mutter something like "reload" and would hope to hedge their bets by claiming they meant "provisional" - or not if that turned out to be a better option.

That's why if someone is about to play another ball off the tee, I ask them if it's provisional or not before they hit it if they have not made their intentions clear.

If someone doesn't say Provisional ( or other wording that makes it clear) , then it's a new ball in play.
Saying nothing also= new ball in play, but to avoid confrontation later when this ball ends up also in the cabbage, I will ask them to clarify before they hit it.
Even the quickest player could not hit a second ball quicker than i could ask!

But it is amazing how many people are flummoxed by me saying "new ball in play"

Do you mean you're playing a provisional?
No, it's a new ball.
so it's a provisional
No, not a provisional

 

[Ross61]

What maybe confusing is if you hit your shot and not sure if you will find it or it maybe OOB, you have 2 options.
1) declare playing a provisional, or
2) declare playing a new ball in play (if you say nothing it becomes a new ball in play.

using option 1 ( provisional) if you find you ball in bounds you have to play it from where it lies or declare unplayable. Where under a penalty of one stroke, you can either drop any distance back in line with the hole or drop within 2 club lengths not nearer the hole or replay from where the original shot was played from. You CANNOT play the provisional.

Under option 2) if you find your 1st ball you have to carry on with your 2nd ball

 

[MendieGK]

Just wondering what would have happened if he'd hit his second into the cabbage. Would the second ball have suddenly become a provisional. This is why it should always be made clear before the second ball is hit.

That was going to be my post before i read all of the replies

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Good thread to learn about, never thought of doing this, and invariably find the first and never get to the same spot for 3 off it as my 2nd ball.

Recently topped a tee shot on our par three 15th with a great card in my hand. Off a raised tee - it went about 20yds into some seriously knee high deep clag. But we saw roughly where it went and so might actually find it. I should have decided there and then that I didn't want to find it and put a 2nd ball in play. But I didn't - I had a good card in my hand and you never know!

I went to look for it - and found it. Of course I still had the 3 off tee option and I should then have taken S&D and gone back to the tee, but it looked vaguely playable - and I had a good card - and so I had a go. I ended up with an 8.

My lesson learned - don't trust yourself to make the logical decision when under pressure - take your medicine and don't go looking for trouble when you don't have to.

 

[ShankyBoy]

If you call a provisional after snap hooking your driver in the rubbish, then smack your 2nd 300 yards, do you have to at least look for your first or can you just walk on by?

 

[Fyldewhite]

If you call a provisional after snap hooking your driver in the rubbish, then smack your 2nd 300 yards, do you have to at least look for your first or can you just walk on by?

You don't have to no, but your opponent (in match play) can or if anyone else does.....say another player in the trees shouts across....."your balls here mate", then you HAVE to go and identify it....and if it's your's play it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You don't have to no, but your opponent (in match play) can or if anyone else does.....say another player in the trees shouts across....."your balls here mate", then you HAVE to go and identify it....and if it's your's play it.

In an individual comp I'll usually say to my PPs something like 'I don't think I'll bother with the first one' - effectively asking them not to go look for it as I'm not going to. I can say the same in a comp but my opponents can of course choose to go hunt for it if they so want to do. They've got until I hit my provisional from a point past where they think my first ball is to find it.

 

[Keeno]

You don't have to no, but your opponent (in match play) can or if anyone else does.....say another player in the trees shouts across....."your balls here mate", then you HAVE to go and identify it....and if it's your's play it.

You don't have to play it though. You can declare it unplayable with one of those options being walk back to the tee and play three off the tee.

It sounds like he took the sensible option for himself and the pace of play. More folk should do it imho

 

[pbrown7582]

You don't have to play it though. You can declare it unplayable with one of those options being walk back to the tee and play three off the tee.

It sounds like he took the sensible option for himself and the pace of play. More folk should do it imho

yes but if this is the case your provisional isn't an option either.

 

[Fyldewhite]

You don't have to play it though. You can declare it unplayable with one of those options being walk back to the tee and play three off the tee.

It sounds like he took the sensible option for himself and the pace of play. More folk should do it imho

Yes, I meant it's the ball in play as opposed to the 300yd provisional. You have all the options that you normally have.

 

[ManinBlack]

In an individual comp I'll usually say to my PPs something like 'I don't think I'll bother with the first one' - effectively asking them not to go look for it as I'm not going to. I can say the same in a comp but my opponents can of course choose to go hunt for it if they so want to do. They've got until I hit my provisional from a point past where they think my first ball is to find it.

'I don't think I'll bother with the first one' is tantamount to saying that your second ball is the ball in play. If the first ball is found & you haven't stated clearly the second was a provisional you can't play it. And what's the point of playing a provisional if you've no intention of looking for the first one?

 

[Region3]

The only possible rule bending that could occur is if he found his ball sat up nicely then claimed that he said 'provisional' before his second tee shot.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

'I don't think I'll bother with the first one' is tantamount to saying that your second ball is the ball in play. If the first ball is found & you haven't stated clearly the second was a provisional you can't play it. And what's the point of playing a provisional if you've no intention of looking for the first one?

I understand all the first part of your comment, but in matchplay I can say what I want but if I have played a provisional my opponents can go hunt for my first ball irrespective of my words. In strokeplay I'd hope my words would be taken by my playing partners as meaning "don't look for it as I'm not going to" - and I may actually also say that.

On the BiB - It might not be immediately obvious to me that my first is not worth looking for - that may become evident only as I approach the area where I think it may be. So for instance as the horrid gorse that I did not see before comes into view I may well just decide not to look for it and instead go play my provisional, at which point I'd tell my PPs not to look for my original. Again such words are meaningless in context of matchplay if my PPs want to go hunt they can - and if they find it it is the ball in play - unless I've played my provisional from past the point etc

 

[Three]

And what's the point of playing a provisional if you've no intention of looking for the first one?

You might hit a really bad shot with the 2nd ball you play from the tee, so calling it a provisional gives you options..
If it's a really poor shot, you might rethink your intention of looking for the original 1st tee shot.

 

[ShankyBoy]

. Again such words are meaningless in context of matchplay if my PPs want to go hunt they can - and if they find it it is the ball in play - unless I've played my provisional from past the point etc

Would anyone really do that, go hunting for your ball so you have to hack it from the rubbish? I'd be put right off my pork pie if someone tried to do that, there'd be no more gimmes I assure you