Bending the rules

[Simbo]

Played our club comp yesterday, 15th tee and my playing partner tops one of the tee into long grass, I then played my shot, he then tees up again and fires, at this point to be perfectly honest I hadn't really paid attention to what he said as he was playing his second ball. As we were walking off the tee I said to him "do you want me to look for that first ball" knowing that if I had found it, he had to play it it would have been a very difficult shot. He said "if you want" I duly found the ball and he picked it up and pocketed it and walked off. So I said " wait a minute mate, you have to play that" to which he replied " no I don't, I never declared my second ball as a provisional so it was automatically in play the minute I hit it" slight discussion takes place but he was adamant he was right so I couldn't do much except tell him to show me it in the rule book back at the clubhouse. Which he duly did!.
The rule book does say this but my interpretation of it is that it was more of a punishment in case you found your first ball 300 yards down the fairway and had failed to declare your second a provisional and in my opinion he had twisted this rule and used it because he didn't much fancy his second shot had he found his first ball.
A bit rule bending there IMO, but he was technically right so I had to apologise. A bit sour though.

 

[Leereed]

The pro's use the rules to their advantage all the time.But I know what you mean.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Not really in the spirit of "play the ball as it lies", which is pretty much my default "rule" unless the rules say I cannot.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Definitely not in the spirit of the game in my book but I guess it didn't break the rules so what can you do?

 

[JezzE]

What he did was perfectly within the Rules, so no problem - it's not like he's got away scot-free as it's still three off the tee...

 

[FairwayDodger]

Completely legitimate to put another ball into play without declaring it to be a provisional. Not controversial or "bending of the rules" IMO.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Completely legitimate to put another ball into play without declaring it to be a provisional. Not controversial or "bending of the rules" IMO.

I agree - pretty straightforward and intelligent round management

 

[chrisd]

You, me and every golfer is entitled to do the same thing. It's not "bending the rules" and as Jezz said, he has paid the penalty of 3 off the tee

 

[turkish]

I'm a bit confused by this so can someone explain? I was under the impression if you are playing a 2nd ball it must be declared a provisional?

Is it still a 2 stroke penalty?

Also something I've been thinking about recently- if you find 1st ball can't you actually just take that ball and rehit from tee and it's only a 1 stroke penalty(as an unplayable) isn't this better than 3 from the tee as you're saving a stroke- obviously this is only ideal if you don't have far to walk from tee to look for it

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm a bit confused by this so can someone explain? I was under the impression if you are playing a 2nd ball it must be declared a provisional?

Is it still a 2 stroke penalty?

Also something I've been thinking about recently- if you find 1st ball can't you actually just take that ball and rehit from tee and it's only a 1 stroke penalty(as an unplayable) isn't this better than 3 from the tee as you're saving a stroke- obviously this is only ideal if you don't have far to walk from tee to look for it

If a second ball is not declared a provisional before it is hit it immediately becomes the ball in play. In that case the first ball can be forgotten about - it's out the game. Having played the 2nd ball as ball in play is 'played 3'

And yes - find the first ball and go back to the tee. But act of going back to the tee (distance) counts a shot and then playing the ball from the tee - is 3

 

[Blue in Munich]

I'm a bit confused by this so can someone explain? I was under the impression if you are playing a 2nd ball it must be declared a provisional?

Is it still a 2 stroke penalty?

Also something I've been thinking about recently- if you find 1st ball can't you actually just take that ball and rehit from tee and it's only a 1 stroke penalty(as an unplayable) isn't this better than 3 from the tee as you're saving a stroke- obviously this is only ideal if you don't have far to walk from tee to look for it

You can play a second ball off the tee but if you don't declare it as a provisional it becomes the ball in play and it is three off the tee (under a stroke and distance penalty I think but I may well be wrong).

As for the second scenario, stroke one is the tee shot, stroke two is the penalty shot for the unplayable lie so re-teeing it and putting it into play makes stroke three, so no difference.

Declaring a ball provisional saves the walk back if the first isn't found. The second ball immediately becomes the ball in play if not declared provisional to avoid the player giving themselves a choice if both are found is my understanding of the reasoning.

 

[North Mimms]

No rule bending at all.

If a FC says they're 'taking another', I will ask them (to clarify) "is this a provisional?"
They normally say yes, but I've been known to say "No, I'm putting a new ball into play" if I think that's a better option when asked the same question.
Then chunk it into a bunker!

 

[backwoodsman]

No rule bending at all.

If a FC says they're 'taking another', I will ask them (to clarify) "is this a provisional?"
They normally say yes, but I've been known to say "No, I'm putting a new ball into play" if I think that's a better option when asked the same question.
Then chunk it into a bunker!

^^^^ This

Not bending rules and not unsporting etc. Perfectly legit.

But OP does demonstrate the need for clarity if someone is putting down another ball to hit. If it's not clear, I will always ask "is that a provisional". And if it is me playing, and I don't want it to be a provisional, then although it is not strictly necessary, I will always say, " this is not a provisional"

 

[MashieNiblick]

As others have said all perfectly legitimate and a well established process under the Rules. No bending involved.

It is something I have done myself when I think there would be no point looking for the first. When I do this I do make sure I say clearly that I am putting another ball in play and that the second ball is not a provisional.

Bear in mind that by not declaring a provisional he takes a risk that he might hit his second into exactly the same place as his first. Then if he found them both he'd have to play the second one, playing 4. If he found the first but but not the second then back to the tee to play 5.

Some might say what he did was actually more purist than declaring the second a provisional, seeing it's good, then not bothering to search for the first, which of course is also within the Rules.

Given the confusion, as no one has specifically mentioned it, the reference is Rule 27-1 - Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e. proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the*Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

[pbrown7582]

fair play to the guy for playing within the rules and thinking quickly. Absolutely nothing wrong with what he did and I bet there are times where we all wished we'd done this!

 

[pbrown7582]

Not really in the spirit of "play the ball as it lies", which is pretty much my default "rule" unless the rules say I cannot.

Definitely not in the spirit of the game in my book but I guess it didn't break the rules so what can you do?

assume the unplayable lie rule doesn't come into your thinking then you just soldier on as it lies.

 

[ManinBlack]

Just wondering what would have happened if he'd hit his second into the cabbage. Would the second ball have suddenly become a provisional. This is why it should always be made clear before the second ball is hit.

 

[ShankyBoy]

Good thread to learn about, never thought of doing this, and invariably find the first and never get to the same spot for 3 off it as my 2nd ball.

 

[patricks148]

nothing wrong here, completely within the rules.

on the other hand ive played with a guy twice this year who has forgotten to say prov and gone and played his first ball and wouldn't have hit is last ball off the tee was the ball in play.

 

[TheCaddie]

nothing wrong here, completely within the rules.

on the other hand ive played with a guy twice this year who has forgotten to say prov and gone and played his first ball and wouldn't have hit is last ball off the tee was the ball in play.

So if I was to fluff up a shot off the tee, and it was 5ft in front of me on a par 5.... i could just put another ball in play, but that would be my third shot, even if I could see the ball in front of me???