Ball overhanging hole question

[cliveb]

While playing today, a PP's putt ended up overhanging the hole. When we approached it, we could see that it was very very slowly still rotating towards dropping. It did eventually drop, but probably more than 10 seconds had elapsed.

I know there's a shot penalty for waiting more than 10 seconds, but the question is this: since we could see it was still ever so slightly rotating, does that mean it's a moving ball? Because if it is, then surely there's another rule about not being allowed to play a moving ball. Which would mean he wasn't allowed to tap it in. So he can't win: he either takes a penalty for playing a moving ball, or a penalty for waiting more than 10 seconds for it to drop.

(The only definition of a moving ball I could find is in rule 10.1d, and this ball was neither completely at rest, nor was it oscillating).

 

[Steve Wilkes]

While playing today, a PP's putt ended up overhanging the hole. When we approached it, we could see that it was very very slowly still rotating towards dropping. It did eventually drop, but probably more than 10 seconds had elapsed.

I know there's a shot penalty for waiting more than 10 seconds, but the question is this: since we could see it was still ever so slightly rotating, does that mean it's a moving ball? Because if it is, then surely there's another rule about not being allowed to play a moving ball. Which would mean he wasn't allowed to tap it in. So he can't win: he either takes a penalty for playing a moving ball, or a penalty for waiting more than 10 seconds for it to drop.

(The only definition of a moving ball I could find is in rule 10.1d, and this ball was neither completely at rest, nor was it oscillating).

If 10 seconds has elapsed after reaching the ball, an overhanging ball is deemed to be at rest even if it is still slowly moving.
So there would be no penalty for tapping in the ball

 

[cliveb]

If 10 seconds has elapsed after reaching the ball, an overhanging ball is deemed to be at rest even if it is still slowly moving.
So there would be no penalty for tapping in the ball

Thanks. Do you have a reference to the rule where this is stated?

 

[backwoodsman]

Rule 13.3

 

[cliveb]

Rule 13.3

Thanks - got it.

 

[Orikoru]

Stupidest rule in golf. Two rules that contradict each other. The 10 second rule is daft, as you say, if the ball is moving then for me the last shot should still count.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Stupidest rule in golf. Two rules that contradict each other. The 10 second rule is daft, as you say, if the ball is moving then for me the last shot should still count.

How long can you sit there and wait then ? What if after a minute it’s still oscillating - just keep on waiting

 

[3 jabber]

Good question and one I've thought about myself for the same reasons in the OP. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Orikoru]

How long can you sit there and wait then ? What if after a minute it’s still oscillating - just keep on waiting

How long do you ever think it would take? It's never realistically going to be more than a minute. Any longer than that and it ain't dropping, and you can get a penalty for undue delay of play. It's just a totally unnecessary rule.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Stupidest rule in golf. Two rules that contradict each other. The 10 second rule is daft, as you say, if the ball is moving then for me the last shot should still count.

Players ball overhanging the hole says I think it's still moving, opponent says no it's still, This could go on for ages. This rule stops any arguments and is a sensible rule in my opinion, There's a lot more stupidest rules in golf than this one

 

[Deleted member 90210]

How long do you ever think it would take? It's never realistically going to be more than a minute. Any longer than that and it ain't dropping, and you can get a penalty for undue delay of play. It's just a totally unnecessary rule.

Good afternoon,

Slightly amused that you think that having a specific time limit is "stupid" and "totally unnecessary", but your solution is to replace it with another specific time limit...

 

[Orikoru]

Good afternoon,

Slightly amused that you think that having a specific time limit is "stupid" and "totally unnecessary", but your solution is to replace it with another specific time limit...

No, it wasn't. I was basically saying wait as long as you like because it will soon become obvious that it's not dropping. You're not going to have a scenario where it drops after 5 or 10 minutes, I would say that borders on physically impossible. 10 seconds is much too short though.

 

[Deleted member 90210]

No, it wasn't. I was basically saying wait as long as you like because it will soon become obvious that it's not dropping. You're not going to have a scenario where it drops after 5 or 10 minutes, I would say that borders on physically impossible. 10 seconds is much too short though.

This is exactly what you wrote:

"It's never realistically going to be more than a minute. Any longer than that and it ain't dropping, and you can get a penalty for undue delay of play."

So you wish to scrap the 10 seconds rule and replace it with a 1 minute rule...

 

[Orikoru]

This is exactly what you wrote:

"It's never realistically going to be more than a minute. Any longer than that and it ain't dropping, and you can get a penalty for undue delay of play."

So you wish to scrap the 10 seconds rule and replace it with a 1 minute rule...

Nope. Think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Whoever you actually are.

 

[cliveb]

Wow. Sorry for stirring up a hornets nest.
I now understand that the rule is simple and unambiguous: after 10 seconds the ball is defined to be at rest. That's good enough for me to resolve what I thought might be a conflict between rules.

Arguing over what the limit should be is akin to arguing whether you're allowed 3 or 5 minutes to look for your ball. The rule states the limit; accept it and move on.

 

[Deleted member 90210]

Wow. Sorry for stirring up a hornets nest.
I now understand that the rule is simple and unambiguous: after 10 seconds the ball is defined to be at rest. That's good enough for me to resolve what I thought might be a conflict between rules.

Arguing over what the limit should be is akin to arguing whether you're allowed 3 or 5 minutes to look for your ball. The rule states the limit; accept it and move on.

Also not been mentioned (albeit the rule has been referenced), the player is allowed a "reasonable amount of time" to get to the hole before the 10 second countdown starts.

In theory, a quick anguished bending down, head back and exasperated exhalation of "aaaahhhh, robbed ref ", followed by a slowish amble up to hole whilst staring intently at the offending ball, could all take up a few extra seconds whilst still being within the "reasonable" time.

 

[Orikoru]

Wow. Sorry for stirring up a hornets nest.
I now understand that the rule is simple and unambiguous: after 10 seconds the ball is defined to be at rest. That's good enough for me to resolve what I thought might be a conflict between rules.

Arguing over what the limit should be is akin to arguing whether you're allowed 3 or 5 minutes to look for your ball. The rule states the limit; accept it and move on.

I was simply agreeing with you that it does give the appearance of two rules being at odds with each other (since you can't hit a moving ball). Not sure why somebody felt the need to create a second account just to argue with me though.

 

[doublebogey7]

No, it wasn't. I was basically saying wait as long as you like because it will soon become obvious that it's not dropping. You're not going to have a scenario where it drops after 5 or 10 minutes, I would say that borders on physically impossible. 10 seconds is much too short though.

Not on the links on a very windy day??