Ball on Grass Cuttings........But

[Deleted member 16999]

Advice please, playing today on our 10th, good drive but took a kick to the right and rolled under gorse bushes, when we reach my ball it is about 18 inches inside the bushes, I could get a club on it but would only be able to come out backwards, it is also lying in the middle of grass cuttings put there by a Greenskeeper, one of my PP then informed me I was entitled to relief under no penalty from the cuttings, I was unsure so chose to knock it backwards and then played on to the green and single putted for par so no damage to scorecard.
My issue was/is, is that I understand the relief from cuttings but I was under the gorse bushes and the drop would've give me a clear shot, advice please?

 

[Foxholer]

Doesn't seem like relief under R25 ws appropriate to this situation.

Grass cuttings are only GUR if they have been piled for removal - which I doubt was the case here.

Decision 25/11 refers.

 

[duncan mackie]

If you were able to make the knock it back into play stroke then the only issues would have been -

1. Were the grass cuttings really piled there for removal? If yes then relief would be available.
2. Relief relies on the nearest point of relief from the cuttings and ignores the existence of the gorse - it may have been further into the bush! If it was towards the fairway count yourself lucky.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Cheers guys, they were fresh cuttings, we don't normally see them there, I suspect the Greenkeeper this morning may of been taking the easy option and dumping them in the bushes rather than taking them away or piling them up!

 

[duncan mackie]

Cheers guys, they were fresh cuttings, we don't normally see them there, I suspect the Greenkeeper this morning may of been taking the easy option and dumping them in the bushes rather than taking them away or piling them up!

In which case there's no relief option.

Relief requires that they are both piled up and that they will subsequently be removed.

 

[Wayman]

bit of a mad place to put them especially with everything going down that way would of expected them in bushes on left hand side of hole

 

[Deleted member 16999]

bit of a mad place to put them especially with everything going down that way would of expected them in bushes on left hand side of hole

Exactly mate, did surprise us to be honest, laziness me thinks😃

 

[Foxholer]

Exactly mate, did surprise us to be honest, laziness me thinks😃

Hang on a tick; you seem to be heading towards 'blaming' the greenie for your situation - having already excused yourself with the 'bad kick from good Drive' statement! :rofl:

The guy deposited the clippings a foot or more into a gorse bush, quite possibly/probably thinking that only an idiot wouldn't 'take an unplayable' if their ball landed there! And, by your '..could get a club on it..' phrase, you were considering playing it as it lay!

I have no idea of the actual layout of the hole and the greenie may/may not have been being lazy, but it seems you were considering being idiotic thinking about playing the ball as it lay. And your PP had already given you a bum steer, so should be informed of his error/myth for the sake of himself and others (to not do so would also be lazy!).

Greenies get far too much blame for situations out of their control imo - and members generally (not you specifically) don't realise either the effort they put in or how restricted their role actually is. Just consider how many bunkers (that they generally rake every day) don't get raked properly (or even at all) by members, many of whom consider themselves 'superior' to the mere course workers!

I can breathe now after that rant! :rofl:

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Hang on a tick; you seem to be heading towards 'blaming' the greenie for your situation - having already excused yourself with the 'bad kick from good Drive' statement! :rofl:

The guy deposited the clippings a foot or more into a gorse bush, quite possibly/probably thinking that only an idiot wouldn't 'take an unplayable' if their ball landed there! And, by your '..could get a club on it..' phrase, you were considering playing it as it lay!

I have no idea of the actual layout of the hole and the greenie may/may not have been being lazy, but it seems you were considering being idiotic thinking about playing the ball as it lay. And your PP had already given you a bum steer, so should be informed of his error/myth for the sake of himself and others (to not do so would also be lazy!).

Greenies get far too much blame for situations out of their control imo - and members generally (not you specifically) don't realise either the effort they put in or how restricted their role actually is. Just consider how many bunkers (that they generally rake every day) don't get raked properly (or even at all) by members, many of whom consider themselves 'superior' to the mere course workers!

I can breathe now after that rant! :rofl:

How was I considering being idiotic?
I could play the ball, which I did, chose to ignore bad advice, which I did, and as previously stated the "Fresh" cuttings were in a different place than normally put and there is actually no reason other than laziness for them to be dumped were they were.
I have never once considered myself superior to anyone in any particular job, you know nothing about me.
I asked a question and was given sensible advice, what I didn't ask for is for you to rant. It was one comment between 2 members who know the course and not a dig at all greenkeepers, just the one lazy so n so, who imo decided to dump the cuttings in new area.

 

[Foxholer]

How was I considering being idiotic?
I could play the ball, which I did, chose to ignore bad advice, which I did, and as previously stated the "Fresh" cuttings were in a different place than normally put and there is actually no reason other than laziness for them to be dumped were they were.
I have never once considered myself superior to anyone in any particular job, you know nothing about me.
I asked a question and was given sensible advice, what I didn't ask for is for you to rant. It was one comment between 2 members who know the course and not a dig at all greenkeepers, just the one lazy so n so, who imo decided to dump the cuttings in new area.

There's a touch of assumption about the lie on my part, so apologies if it's completely wrong!

But attempting to play a ball that's 18" into a gorse bush (and sitting on grass clippings) does seem idiotic - even if you 'could get a club on it'! What are you going to achieve that a much safer 'unplayable' (2 Clubs or as far back in line with pin) won't achieve in a more guaranteed way!

And my criticism of members wasn't aimed at you in particular. Though if you haven't informed (or don't intend to) your PP of his (presumably) error, then the 'lazy' tag applies! And you have made an assumption about the Greeny's reason for dumping the cuttings there haven't you!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There's a touch of assumption about the lie on my part, so apologies if it's completely wrong!

But attempting to play a ball that's 18" into a gorse bush (and sitting on grass clippings) does seem idiotic - even if you 'could get a club on it'! What are you going to achieve that a much safer 'unplayable' (2 Clubs or as far back in line with pin) won't achieve in a more guaranteed way!

And my criticism of members wasn't aimed at you in particular. Though if you haven't informed (or don't intend to) your PP of his (presumably) error, then the 'lazy' tag applies! And you have made an assumption about the Greeny's reason for dumping the cuttings there haven't you!

As I said in my op i could play the ball backwards as it was an option, an easy option not an idiotic one as I could hit it on to the fairway and have clear line of sight to the green, there is an opening in that direction, the far back in line with the pin would've brought bunker and gorse bushes in to play, the gorse bushes are well established and some are tall, if we started every thread with 100% detail they would be pages long and people would not bother to read them, the confusion only arose when when pp intervened.
I actually told the other guys I would post the question on here after the round because imo it is an excellent place to get the right answer, I posted and you and Duncan very quickly and simply answered to which i thanked you, last night I rang my mate and informed him of the answer, so apart from Wayman (who knows the course) then asking me a question it was over and done with, until your rant and assumptions, really is very confusing how one minute you were extremely helpful to the next minute having digs.
Yes I am assuming one particular greenskeeper was idle/lazy as there is an area behind that particular hole were crass cuttings are placed, and have been for the 8 years I've been member here, there is absolutely no reason for them to be dumped were they were, apart from it is on the way to another green on the opposite side of the normal dumping place.
Thank you again for your first post on the subject.

 

[Foxholer]

...
I actually told the other guys I would post the question on here after the round because imo it is an excellent place to get the right answer, I posted and you and Duncan very quickly and simply answered to which i thanked you, last night I rang my mate and informed him of the answer, so apart from Wayman (who knows the course) then asking me a question it was over and done with, until your rant and assumptions, really is very confusing how one minute you were extremely helpful to the next minute having digs.
...
Thank you again for your first post on the subject.

Ah, the joys of text - even with emoticons!

Apologies for the confusion! Happy to be helpful (I always try to be and saying the shot may have been idiotic wasn't meant to imply you were an idiot!), but I'm particularly 'protective' of the guys and gals that normally do a wonderful and too often under-appreciated job of maintaining the courses we expect to be tip-top, while some members treat them as if they are serfs!

I'd still query the sense of playing the shot you were thinking of! I've seen too many folk get it wrong, where relief under penalty would have only cost the 1 shot! But if it worked for you, then fine!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ah, the joys of text - even with emoticons!

Apologies for the confusion! Happy to be helpful (I always try to be and saying the shot may have been idiotic wasn't meant to imply you were an idiot!), but I'm particularly 'protective' of the guys and gals that normally do a wonderful and too often under-appreciated job of maintaining the courses we expect to be tip-top, while some members treat them as if they are serfs!

I'd still query the sense of playing the shot you were thinking of! I've seen too many folk get it wrong, where relief under penalty would have only cost the 1 shot! But if it worked for you, then fine!

Cheers, in my op I did say it came off with a third to the green and a single putt, totally empathise with you about the greenkeepers to the point that I am in the Army and "arranged" for all the old gortex waterproofs and heavy duty clothing to be given to the guys at the course for use in bad weather.

 

[Foxholer]

Cheers, in my op I did say it came off with a third to the green and a single putt, totally empathise with you about the greenkeepers to the point that I am in the Army and "arranged" for all the old gortex waterproofs and heavy duty clothing to be given to the guys at the course for use in bad weather

Now that's a wonderful practical deed!