ball moves at address

[bignev]

While playing in a winter league match last month I called a penalty shot on myself.
What happened was as I addressed the ball in the semi rough/mud I touched it and it rocked forward then returned to its original position. Was I right on calling myself.

 

[pbrown7582]

Not if it returned to it's original position no penalty.

 

[Old Skier]

I think 18-2 one stroke penalty.

 

[bladeplayer]

While playing in a winter league match last month I called a penalty shot on myself.
What happened was as I addressed the ball in the semi rough/mud I touched it and it rocked forward then returned to its original position. Was I right on calling myself.

This is the key bit in blue ,

If it had moved off its original spot ,the penalty would have been 1 shot and replace the ball, as it hasnt , you cant , no pen

 

[CMAC]

This is the key bit in blue ,

If it had moved off its original spot ,the penalty would have been 1 shot and replace the ball, as it hasnt , you cant , no pen

thats my view as well, however a local pro said 1 shot penalty if you even touch the ball with your club

 

[Foxholer]

thats my view as well, however a local pro said 1 shot penalty if you even touch the ball with your club

Decision 18/2 clears up that misconception. If a ball merely oscillates, returning to the original position, then it has not moved. At least as defined in The Rules....

Move Or Moved
A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.

 

[rulefan]

I think 18-2 one stroke penalty.

Why do you think that?

 

[chrisd]

Can I just add a sub question rather than a new thread.

Playing the other day, I rested my wedge an inch or so behind my ball and whilst the ball itself stayed firmly on its spot, the grass iitself moved with the ball on it. So, the ball didn't move in relation to the earth but everything moved together?

 

[Foxholer]

Can I just add a sub question rather than a new thread.

Playing the other day, I rested my wedge an inch or so behind my ball and whilst the ball itself stayed firmly on its spot, the grass iitself moved with the ball on it. So, the ball didn't move in relation to the earth but everything moved together?

Ball didn't move then - as defined by RoG.See definition above.

 

[Old Skier]

Why do you think that?

Because he moved the ball with his club. How can you guarantee that the ball moved back to the exact position?

 

[CliveW]

If the ball moves vertically, then it is also deemed to have moved. eg If your ball is sitting on a tuft of grass in the rough and when you address it it settles down.

 

[Foxholer]

Because he moved the ball with his club. How can you guarantee that the ball moved back to the exact position?

So you don't believe him when he stated in the OP that that is what happened?

 

[SVB]

Can I just add a sub question rather than a new thread.

Playing the other day, I rested my wedge an inch or so behind my ball and whilst the ball itself stayed firmly on its spot, the grass iitself moved with the ball on it. So, the ball didn't move in relation to the earth but everything moved together?

Ball didn't move then - as defined by RoG.See definition above.

Does the fact you changed your lie come into play then so penalty anyway?

 

[Old Skier]

So you don't believe him when he stated in the OP that that is what happened?

I do but I cannot find anything that says it's not a penalty. If someone can point me in the right direction I, like other forum members, am keen to expand my rules knowledge.

i was going by this statement in 18-2

[h=4]b. Ball Moving After Address[/h]If a player’s ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke.
The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.
Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply.

 

[bladeplayer]

I do but I cannot find anything that says it's not a penalty. If someone can point me in the right direction I, like other forum members, am keen to expand my rules knowledge.

i was going by this statement in 18-2

b. Ball Moving After Address

If a player’s ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke.
The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.
Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply.

The problem is the understanding of MOVED , moved in relation to the RoG means it moves of and stays off its original spot , if the ball moves and returns to it original spot it is not deemed to have moved at all so play on as it lies ..

Possibly if you click on the word MOVED in you link it might define MOVED for the Rules of Golf
.
EDIT < it does , if you click on the highlighted word MOVED it give u this defination
"[h=4]Move Or Moved[/h]A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place."

 

[Colin L]

The important point you're missing is what moved means in the rules. You'll find it in the Definition (my bold type)

A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.

To have moved, the ball has to have ended up in a different position. You may see a ball move in the normal sense of the word but if it then moves back into its original position in the same process, it hasn't moved in terms of the Rules. For that to happen, it's not going to have moved (in the usual sense) very much - more or less just a fractional rocking I'd suggest.

 

[Colin L]

Can I just add a sub question rather than a new thread.

Playing the other day, I rested my wedge an inch or so behind my ball and whilst the ball itself stayed firmly on its spot, the grass iitself moved with the ball on it. So, the ball didn't move in relation to the earth but everything moved together?

I'm confused here. if the ball stayed on its spot, how did " everything" move together?

 

[Foxholer]

I do but I cannot find anything that says it's not a penalty. If someone can point me in the right direction I, like other forum members, am keen to expand my rules knowledge.
...

See (my) Post 6 and 9, or others mentioning 'moves/moved' definition in RoG! (sorry CMAC Roles of Golf )

And that Decision (18/2) is quite definitive too.

 

[Old Skier]

The problem is the understanding of MOVED , moved in relation to the RoG means it moves of and stays off its original spot , if the ball moves and returns to it original spot it is not deemed to have moved at all so play on as it lies ..

Possibly if you click on the word MOVED in you link it might define MOVED for the Rules of Golf
.
EDIT < it does , if you click on the highlighted word MOVED it give u this defination
"Move Or Moved

A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place."

Cheers, once again it appears the golf gods have over complicated something.

 

[Colin L]

Cheers, once again it appears the golf gods have over complicated something.

On the contrary, it is clear and simple.