Ball lands on own bag

[olijames]

A bit of a peculiar one.

If a player was to tee off, miss hit and the ball hits their own bag, I understand this is a penalty and the ball is played where it lies.

However in this instance, the ball not only hit the bag, but due to the loft of the shot the ball then landed on the bag and that is where it lay.

What is the protocol here?

On the occasion, the player removed the ball and the bag and played a drop, adding the penalty shot.
However the player was later informed that the ball and bag should have been moved and the ball placed on the ground where the bag was positioned as if it had not been there.
(This unfortunately resulted in disqualification)

Would really like some clarification on this one if anybody has more thorough knowledge.

Thank you in advance.

 

[williamalex1]

A bit of a peculiar one.

If a player was to tee off, miss hit and the ball hits their own bag, I understand this is a penalty and the ball is played where it lies.

However in this instance, the ball not only hit the bag, but due to the loft of the shot the ball then landed on the bag and that is where it lay.

What is the protocol here?

On the occasion, the player removed the ball and the bag and played a drop, adding the penalty shot.
However the player was later informed that the ball and bag should have been moved and the ball placed on the ground where the bag was positioned as if it had not been there.
(This unfortunately resulted in disqualification)

Would really like some clarification on this one if anybody has more thorough knowledge.

Thank you in advance.

See rule 19-2 stroke play or Rule 19-3 match play :thup:

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Correct procedure would be to mark where the ball would be if the bag were not there. Then remove the ball from the bag and drop it as normal o the marked spot. Don't think you get to place it (unless the drop rolls too far).

This happens a lot at pro tournaments where bags get loaded in spectators gear - obviously without penalty .

 

[bobmac]

There was a similar incident when Faldos' ball finished on a plastic bag. He thought he could place the ball but the official told him he had to drop it

 

[olijames]

Thank you all for the replies!
I had checked the official rules but found it didn't provide me with enough certainty.

The general consensus I'm getting here is that the player made the correct choices and the captain who made the choice to disqualify the player had perhaps made the wrong decision.

With perhaps the exception of applying the penalty. However providing the card hadn't been signed before the query I would have assumed it shouldn't have been an issue.

Thank you again for the help!

 

[Region3]

"Golf club official gets rule wrong shocker".

I need a lie down.

 

[Colin L]

Thank you all for the replies!
I had checked the official rules but found it didn't provide me with enough certainty.

The general consensus I'm getting here is that the player made the correct choices and the captain who made the choice to disqualify the player had perhaps made the wrong decision.

With perhaps the exception of applying the penalty. However providing the card hadn't been signed before the query I would have assumed it shouldn't have been an issue.

Thank you again for the help!

No perhaps about it. He was wrong as has been said above. The ball has in effect landed on a movable obstruction, Rule 24-1b applies and the ball must be dropped unless on the putting green. Rule 19-2 helpfully applies that to the particular situation where the movable obstruction is your own equipment and there is a penalty. You do not need to mark the spot below where the ball is before moving the obstruction and in many instances it would not be possible to do so.

Rule 19-2 applies to both stroke play and match play. !9-3 is not applicable here as it has to do with a ball hitting and landing on your opponent’s equipment in match play.

 

[olijames]

Thank you again all for your very helpful replies. I'm not new to golf but certainly need to ask for help from time to time so thank you for being gentle!

I appreciate the in depth comment (Colin L) breaking it down for me! This is extremely helpful.

I shall pass on the information to the individual in question. I don't think his score was strong enough to place high in the particular comp, but with the event in question happening on the 17th after a long day of golf, I think he was very disappointed to learn his efforts had come to no avail.

Again thank you so much for the help.

 

[bobmac]

If someone gives you a ruling that you dont agree with, ask them to show you the rule, preferably in the book you keep in your bag or in the R&A app on your phone

 

[Colin L]

To take this a bit further. There should not, in my view, have been a disqualification even if the captain had been correct about placing instead of dropping.

If the captain had been correct about placing instead of dropping, he would have been wrong to disqualify the player. What we we would have had is a case of a player returning a score at a hole lower than actually taken because had not included penalty strokes which he did not know he had incurred. This situation is now excepted from the DQ penalty for returning a score at a hole lower than that actually taken. The outcome now is that the penalty is applied plus an additional 2 strokes. No DQ. See the Exception in Rule 6-6d (new from Jan 2016).

You have the delicate task of letting your captain know he was wrong on two counts: wrong to say you should have placed the ball; and wrong on the basis of what he believed to be the case to have disqualified the player. Have fun!

 

[olijames]

Thank you again Colin L

The incident in question I asked on behalf of a friend. Unfortunately at the time I think he felt unable to question the authority. It was in fact the captain whom he spoke to, however the captain went away and returned with further advice from others/those in charge and then dealt the blow.

The player (my friend) did drop the ball and also did include 1 penalty shot against his score for doing so. I do agree with you though that a disqualification was not appropriate, however I forgot to mention we are talking some time ago that this happened. The player Is now in fact a member at a different club and it is more than likely that the captain does not still hold his position at the original club.

This inquiry was for peace of mind and future reference.

Thank you again.

 

[Colin L]

You’re welcome. If it happened before the beginning of the year, that exception did not apply, but for future reference is the thing to remember.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

Out of interest, has the Captain the capacity to disqualify someone in his own right on his interpretation of the rules? I thought a committee made the decisions on disqualification!

 

[olijames]

This is also where my suspicions lay. As I was not there myself it's difficult to pinpoint. According to the player (whom I have asked this on behalf) he spoke to the captain who then spoke to 'others'... I assume the 'others' were part of the committee and that there was a formal disqualification (or I hope). Like I said in a previous post, I find the player felt unable to challenge the authority, as golf can be like this amongst some groups. Delving into speculation is all I have, though perhaps it would be unfair to suggest the captain made a bias decision based on his own opinions of the player/situation. I really don't know. I'm just pleased the player and I can move forward from this with a better understanding.