Ball in hazard, long grass touching...

[Hooker]

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster in the rules forum.

During the a game today on our 13th hole FC hits his ball into the red stick hazard in front of the tee, ball is on the bank.

I had to go and look for my ball which was flirting with the OB on the right.

Another FC goes with player a, to the hazard to watch him play his shot. He reminds him of the rule that he is not allowed to ground his club in the hazard.

I find my ball and they catch up with me, but they are having a heated argument! Player b is accusing player a of touching the long wispy grass/weeds as he is hovering to address the ball. It was quite windy today so I asked whether the wind had blown the grass onto his club? Player a is insisting he was careful not to touch the grass.

I suggested we sorted it out later as it was getting very heated and I could not be referee to something I did not witness. But as they had different versions of the story it was one persons word against the other. I also happened to be about 6 under my handicap at the time so I was trying to stay on top of my own game!

I have looked up the rule 13-4 Ball in hazard, prohibited actions, in the notes

Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke, the player may touch, with a club or otherwise, any obstruction, any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing..

So I assume that even if he had touched the grass, no penalty?

But then I remember Brian Davis calling a penalty on himself in a similar situation. Have the rules changed? As Carl petterson was in a hazard and was allowed to swish the long grass in a practise swing, but in moving a leaf in his backswing was penalised due to moving a loose impediment.

So I am kerfuffled............Over to you guys from Confused from Woking.

 

[hovis]

Brushing the grass is ok as its fixed and growing. i think brian davis brushed a dead bull rush so counted as a loose impediment. Might not be the case i am thinking of

 

[Foxholer]

Touching stuff that is growing is fine - as long as lie isn't improved.

Touching natural stuff that is not growing is not!

 

[duncan mackie]

you have quoted the correct rule, and relevant note = not sure what's kerfuffling you?

the player may touch anything growing.....etc

the player may not touch loose impediments, or ground his club

simples :thup:

you need to be very careful when considering 'similar situations' because the relevant facts may be completely different.

 

[atticusfinch]

Analysis aid for future cases: the rule prohibits touching the "ground" in a hazard. Growing grass is not ground.

 

[Hooker]

Thanks, I didn't realise the grass Brian Davis had touched was dead! Thats what confused me!

 

[guest100718]

I didnt realise for a long time that you could touch the grass in the hazard.

 

[McFade]

Growing grass is not ground.

I'm afraid, this statement might be misleading.
13-4/8
Q.If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?
A.When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded).

 

[atticusfinch]

I'm afraid, this statement might be misleading.
13-4/8
Q.If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?
A.When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded).

Good point, thanks.

 

[SteveBonners]

In Brian Davis's case, it was during a play off against Jim Furyk. His ball was in the hazard and in preparing to take his shot he touched a loose reed. As this was a loose impediment, he was penalised 2 shots under rule 13-4.