Ashes 2017/18

[Deleted member 15344]

http://bbc.in/2wGPCBs

So who would your 11 be

For me the squad players to add should be

Hamed
Malan
Buttler
Rashid
Roland Jones
Ball

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Cook
Root
Stokes
Moeen
Broad
Anderson

And then 5 others!

Have a nasty feeling that it will be similar to the last debacle to the land of plenty!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Cook
Root
Stokes
Moeen
Broad
Anderson

And then 5 others!

Have a nasty feeling that it will be similar to the last debacle to the land of plenty!!

I'll add to yours with:

Bairstow
Woakes
Plunkett
Stoneman

After that I am struggling and so will England. Roland Jones has earned a place but worry he could be fodder out there. I hope not. I can't think of a number 3 that is not a gamble. No one has stuck their hand up and claimed a spot. You could choose 1 of 4 and none will have earned their place. Rashid is probably worth taking as he should get extra bounce out there that should suit. We need to come off and not go for 5 an over. The Aussies will go after him if he does play, that is for sure.

I expect us to get gubbed. Apparently Flintoff said this was the best England team he can remember. I can only assume that years of drinking, he is now tea total I believe, have robbed him of his memory as it is nowhere close. Worried.

 

[Junior]

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstowe
Ballance
Hales
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Squad players: Leach, Wood, TRJ, Foakes, Westly,

If its a turner and they want to go with 2 spinners, id play Leach for Hales and move everone up 1 in the order.

I send Malan, Crane, Parkinson with the lions to Oz.

 

[TheDiablo]

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstowe
Ballance
Hales
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Squad players: Leach, Wood, TRJ, Foakes, Westly,

If its a turner and they want to go with 2 spinners, id play Leach for Hales and move everone up 1 in the order.

I send Malan, Crane, Parkinson with the lions to Oz.

I'd have the same, but TRJ in for Woakes.

I dont think you can have both Woakes and Broad in the same team for the 1st test - fitness worries on both and I'm not sure either will be bowling a huge amount for prolonged spells before then to prove they can handle a 5 day game.

On the flip side, TRJ has come in and done everything that has been asked of him and more - fitted very well into the side, stepped up his level and IMO dropping him for the 1st test would send a 'names over form' message which is damaging to a touring squad.

I'd also be taking Malan, Westley, Foakes, Wood and Woakes.

I wouldn't take Hameed initially - leave him with the Lions and if he piles on the runs and we're short of an opener then call him up. At this point in his career being a water carrier is of no benefit to anyone whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Negative I know, as I am struggling to suggest other names, but it does highlight the paucity of talent when players like Ballance and Westley are being suggested.

Both have appalling techniques that are likely to be exposed at this level. These problems can sometimes be overcome by mental application (as Pietersen did) but neither of them have shown that determination.

And TRJ is far too likely to bowl a "fourball" an over to be first change seamer. Stokes has the same problem but obviously compensates with his all round game.

Thankfully the Aussies seem to have troubles of their own.

 

[Junior]

I'd have the same, but TRJ in for Woakes.

I dont think you can have both Woakes and Broad in the same team for the 1st test - fitness worries on both and I'm not sure either will be bowling a huge amount for prolonged spells before then to prove they can handle a 5 day game.

On the flip side, TRJ has come in and done everything that has been asked of him and more - fitted very well into the side, stepped up his level and IMO dropping him for the 1st test would send a 'names over form' message which is damaging to a touring squad.

I'd also be taking Malan, Westley, Foakes, Wood and Woakes.

I wouldn't take Hameed initially - leave him with the Lions and if he piles on the runs and we're short of an opener then call him up. At this point in his career being a water carrier is of no benefit to anyone whatsoever.

Yeah, I 'd have no issues with TRJ for Woakes. I've a soft spot for Woakes as he was our 'best' bowler by a long way before he got injured. Agree Hameed with the lions. Weird how he's got runs for lancs recently but didn't get above 36 whilst playing league cricket for Formby (6 games). No 2nd spinner ?

 

[Junior]

Negative I know, as I am struggling to suggest other names, but it does highlight the paucity of talent when players like Ballance and Westley are being suggested.

Both have appalling techniques that are likely to be exposed at this level. These problems can sometimes be overcome by mental application (as Pietersen did) but neither of them have shown that determination.

And TRJ is far too likely to bowl a "fourball" an over to be first change seamer. Stokes has the same problem but obviously compensates with his all round game.

Thankfully the Aussies seem to have troubles of their own.

Yes, I agree that you do have to question the role county cricket plays in developing England players. The gap has widened since the schedules of international cricket has grown and world class players, in there prime, no longer spend the season with counties. Remember, Ambrose at Northants, Walsh at Gloucester, Akram at Lancs etc etc　

I think technique plays a smaller role these days. If someone has got it, and they have the ability to improve then stick with them. Plenty of players with poor techniques have managed to succeed at international level. No coach would teach a young person to bat like Graeme Smith, Chanderpaul or ,Brian Lara and bowl like Malinga, Ashwin and Murali etc. 　

Ballance is by far and away one of the best county players we have and they should stick with him at 5. From there he can easily make the step up to test cricket again.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I understand that TRJ is having investigative tests on a side/back injury. He had to leave the field mid-over during the current match.

With the aforementioned concerns over Broad and Woakes this is bad news for the selectors .

 

[Deleted member 18588]

How many chances should Ballance be given.

So far there has been nothing to suggest that he is able to handle the step up to the Test level on a long-term basis.

 

[Junior]

How many chances should Ballance be given.

So far there has been nothing to suggest that he is able to handle the step up to the Test level on a long-term basis.

7 x 50's and 4 x 100's in a relatively short and interrupted test career ?

Stoneman aside, he is by far and away the best English batsmen on the circuit. 900+ runs averaging 80+ this year in County Cricket div 1. They should shield him from the new ball and stick him at 5. In contrast, Malan in contrast is averaging 37 (455 runs) , Westly averaging 45 with 500 runs.

edited to add I'm a Lanky fan , so am showing no bias

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Junior - He started wonderfully well and looked the answer. Since then you just have to bowl full at him and he is an LBW / caught behind waiting to happen. He has looked totally out of place for the last few series. Australia may suit if wickets there are still bouncy as he is a back foot player but I don't know if the wickets there still play that way.

I know his county record this year is very good but there is a big difference between county and test and at test level I think they have worked him out. I'd love to be wrong by the way.

 

[TheDiablo]

Yeah, I 'd have no issues with TRJ for Woakes. I've a soft spot for Woakes as he was our 'best' bowler by a long way before he got injured. Agree Hameed with the lions. Weird how he's got runs for lancs recently but didn't get above 36 whilst playing league cricket for Formby (6 games). No 2nd spinner ?

Fully agree regarding Woakes, fully fit was our best bowler for a year or so after he finally got the prolonged run he deserved

Wouldn't take a 2nd spinner, I don't there is one good enough, nor one should be needed. If something happens to Ali then call someone up who has been bowling for Lions rather than carrying the drinks.

 

[richart]

Probably need two in Sydney and if we only have one on tour, some of the other grounds might become spinner friendly.

If selectors don't rate Rashid, then think Crane should go. Good experience and has done ok in Australia. Leg spinners generally do well on hard wickets with bounce.

 

[TheDiablo]

2 might be needed in Sydney, but if it is a deciding game I'm not sure you'd want to throw a spinner their first Test Match in an away Ashes series when theyve done nothing but net bowling for the whole tour. You'd be better off just backing your seam attack. Only option in that scenario would be Rashid but I think the selectors have written him off in Tests.

 

[Junior]

Junior - He started wonderfully well and looked the answer. Since then you just have to bowl full at him and he is an LBW / caught behind waiting to happen. He has looked totally out of place for the last few series. Australia may suit if wickets there are still bouncy as he is a back foot player but I don't know if the wickets there still play that way.

I know his county record this year is very good but there is a big difference between county and test and at test level I think they have worked him out. I'd love to be wrong by the way.

Fair points.......I'd love for someone else to be standing up and scoring runs for fun in county cricket this year (other than Sangakarra), but sadly its not the case. Jonathan Trott is doing Ok Would you stick with Westly / Malan ?

 

[Junior]

Probably need two in Sydney and if we only have one on tour, some of the other grounds might become spinner friendly.

If selectors don't rate Rashid, then think Crane should go. Good experience and has done ok in Australia. Leg spinners generally do well on hard wickets with bounce.

Lots of the wickets take spin down under now. Perth is no longer a fortress for the pace men since it went to drop in pitches. Sydney, Perth, MCG are all turners on day 3 & 4.

That said, I'd still probably play the extra batter and stick with my team above.

 

[richart]

2 might be needed in Sydney, but if it is a deciding game I'm not sure you'd want to throw a spinner their first Test Match in an away Ashes series when theyve done nothing but net bowling for the whole tour. You'd be better off just backing your seam attack. Only option in that scenario would be Rashid but I think the selectors have written him off in Tests.

Really can't see us going with one spinner, and if you go on the tour you have to be ready to play. I have my doubts about Ali getting many wickets on flat tracks. Crane has played in Australia with some success, and seems like a strong character. Give the kid a chance.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Fair points.......I'd love for someone else to be standing up and scoring runs for fun in county cricket this year (other than Sangakarra), but sadly its not the case. Jonathan Trott is doing Ok Would you stick with Westly / Malan ?

I think I probably would on the basis that they did enough to earn their chance and no one else has been blazing a trail to kick them out. They have had a taste, found their weaknesses, not awful, and hopefully the England set up will be working with them on sorting those out. If we don't go with them we go back to players such as Ballance, tried a few times now, Hamed, tried and worked brilliantly but has fallen apart this year or Jennings who has lost all confidence. I don't see them as alternatives. The other options are trying some of the one day lads in the middle order but the opinion there is they are too loose for test cricket.

Let's stick with them and see what they can do on Aussie pitches. To be fair, ours were not great for those last few matches, it swung around a fair bit, and so they had a tougher baptism than we would have expected.

If it is a total disaster we can always ship in one of the players on the Lions tour who is scoring heavily, hopefully scoring heavily anyway .

 

[TheDiablo]

Really can't see us going with one spinner, and if you go on the tour you have to be ready to play. I have my doubts about Ali getting many wickets on flat tracks. Crane has played in Australia with some success, and seems like a strong character. Give the kid a chance.

That seems to be the ancient wisdom, but isnt one I necessarily subscribe to. Can't think of too many times someone has been called upon the morning of a Test match following a freak injury (McGrath aside) and even if that does happen any examples of that player coming in and being a success in that game.

I'd personally rather have them playing regularly at a high level and called up for cover if theres a fitness doubt or the track look likes a turner rather than carrying drinks and bowling in nets for 2 months- IMO that makes them more 'ready to play'.

FWIW I'm pretty sure he will be on the main tour. Just a shame they didnt give him debut against the Windies but the 2nd Test screwed that plan!

Another wisdom I think hasnt moved with times is a set batting order that doesnt have flexibility. Personally, I'd like Hales to be batting at 6, but with the flexibility to move him up to 3/4 should the openers see the new ball off, where he could then potentially go out with more freedom and take the game away. After all, batting at 6 he could be facing the 2nd new ball anyway! Modern day players (certainly Hales) dont really need the security and mental preparation a fixed position brings. But it's too safe a tactic to stick with the old, and if it didnt work out the Press would jump on Bayliss so it's not one I ever expect to see tested.