As a club member, are you obligated to report abuse of rules?

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I'm just getting started. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole effin' diseased corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
If you're absolutely sure and can prove rules have been broken, then you should report it regardless of who it is. Could get messy if you have no proof though.
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Well yes I'm sure as I/we saw it happen numerous times. We decided to let it drop as we didn't need the hassle of a potential argument given the stature of the person at the club.
For the record it was playing from the fairway, the rest of us mortals have to use mats or pick/place onto the first cut throughout January. I guess I'm hoping it was a genuine mistake but as captain I would expect them to know the local rules.
 
I heard that a Vice Captain a couple of years ago agreed with his fellow competitors to call all bunkers GUR because most of them had water in them. Not full of water to prevent a drop but just wet & sodden.

I guess I should have reported it but it was a one off that I knew of and I didn't personally want to be ostracised
 
If it's a competition, then it could be worthwhile notifying 'The Committee' of what you saw. But I'd strongly suggest that you are very careful to have sufficient 'appears/appeared' and 'seemed' etc!

And the above assumes that it was actual abuse of the rules (apparent cheating) as opposed to a simply ignorance of them/procedures!

It makes no difference who the offender is!

Edit: Having seen Post 5, it seems more likely to be best handled as simply ignorance of the Rules/Procedures!
 
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Beezerk said:
Well yes I'm sure as I/we saw it happen numerous times. We decided to let it drop as we didn't need the hassle of a potential argument given the stature of the person at the club.
For the record it was playing from the fairway, the rest of us mortals have to use mats or pick/place onto the first cut throughout January. I guess I'm hoping it was a genuine mistake but as captain I would expect them to know the local rules.
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So if she was playing her shots from the fairway, what were the rest of her group doing? if they were moving their balls then she knows what she's doing, if the whole group didn't, then they followed her lead or the first person who played a shot from the fairway and were all guilty!
 
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Beezerk said:
Well yes I'm sure as I/we saw it happen numerous times. We decided to let it drop as we didn't need the hassle of a potential argument given the stature of the person at the club.
For the record it was playing from the fairway, the rest of us mortals have to use mats or pick/place onto the first cut throughout January. I guess I'm hoping it was a genuine mistake but as captain I would expect them to know the local rules.
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Perhaps just tell the "committee" that you have noticed people not abiding by the mat/drop rule and that they should perhaps make a general communication to all members that they should abide by it. That way the captain will be re-aquainted with the rule (in case She had forgotten ;)) without making a direct accusation?
 
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Fish said:
So if he was playing his shots from the fairway, what were the rest of his group doing? if they were moving their balls then he knows what he's doing, if the whole group didn't, then they followed his lead or the first person who played a shot from the fairway and were all guilty!
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I didn't really see if they moved their balls I just saw both of them playing from the middle of a few fairways, and they were she not he :D
In the big scheme it's not important but I was miffed as they were digging up the fairways for no good reason which lead me to think "do I need to report this for the good of the club?"
 
Beezerk said:
I didn't really see if they moved their balls I just saw both of them playing from the middle of a few fairways, and they were she not he :D
In the big scheme it's not important but I was miffed as they were digging up the fairways for no good reason which lead me to think "do I need to report this for the good of the club?"
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Thought I'd said "she" :whistle:

Anyway, I think a discreet mention could be in order to someone, its either a blatant disregard or not knowledgeable and adhering to the winter rules of the club, which is also poor in her position. At least 1 of them should have known, so it leads me to think its a blatant disregard because if I were her partner, I'd have said, "shouldn't we be moving our balls to the first cut?"
 
Beezerk said:
Even if it's one of the captains who's abusing the rules?
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I consider such situations as more minefields than cans of worms - and it shouldn't matter who the other individual is; the Rules of Golf make no differentiation for 'captains' etc

If it's a competition, and you are a fellow competitor, then you have responsibilities to the whole field - the relevant rulings are:

1-3/6
6-6a/5
33-7/9

6-6a/5 is the best example to consider the implications all round; mainly because it makes clear how things will get out of hand if the right things aren't said to the right people at the right time.

The scenario is given as - In stroke play, a competitor returned a wrong score because his score card did not include a penalty he had incurred. The competitor was unaware that he had incurred the penalty. The competitor's marker (a fellow-competitor) was aware of the penalty but nevertheless signed the card. The facts were discovered before the result of the competition was officially announced.

Now, the FC may have thought that the player knew he had a penalty and was looking to avoid any confrontation (normal) but as a result of saying nothing before the card was returned both get DQ and both are extremely annoyed because it was entirely avoidable!

Question softly at the time eg "Are you sure you can do that?" "I thought that...."etc
Do not continue any discussions to an argument on the course - if you are unhappy with the response just nod and raise it with the committee after the game; you have done everything perfectly correctly and ensured that any misunderstandings aren't the issue.
If the issue is about what happened rather than whether it's permissible ie a question of fact remains eg you moved your ball - no I didn't etc then firstly you at least establish a baseline for the subsequent inquest!

I've always regretted that Monty Python didn't do a sketch around the 'clear cut cheat' where, for example, a player kicks his ball out of the rough onto the fairway whilst looking the other way and an argument starts with another player.....

Oi, you can't do that, thats a penalty
Can't do what?
Move your ball out the rough
I didn't!
Yes you did, I saw you
No I didn't
Did
Didn't
Oh look (points at rough) there's a squirrel - must have moved my ball when I wasn't watching...
No, I saw you kick it out
Oh, you saw me kick it did you - what colour are my shoes? (hiding them behind a golf bag)
Brown
Make?
Footjoy
Model, size and spike pattern???
This is silly, I saw you kick your ball!
Didn't.....
:)

edit - having taken some time to write this post (partly because I stopped halfway through to order a fridge...) I missed the bit about the true nature of the heinous crime involved here. If it was a competition I would probably ask something along the lines of "I thought we had to use mats off the fairways this month - but noticed that you appeared to be playing your shots without them; clearly one of us is breaking the rules and I obviously need to establish if it's me before I return my card..."

if it wasn't a competition then you have the classic choices of the bar/forum comment along the lines of "what's the point of having rules to protect the course if the captains don't abide by them?" or raising it with them to find out if they had missed the LR.

Note, I played 9 holes with a trolley before the last committee meeting when the course was closed to all trolleys - I had completely missed the sign in the pro-shop (because I was collared the moment I walked in for something and my attention was distracted and the Pro didn't point it out to me as he had to everyone else because he assumed I would know!), was observed by others and felt terrible afterwards! It happens.
 
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duncan mackie said:
I consider such situations as more minefields than cans of worms - and it shouldn't matter who the other individual is; the Rules of Golf make no differentiation for 'captains' etc

If it's a competition, and you are a fellow competitor, then you have responsibilities to the whole field - the relevant rulings are:

1-3/6
6-6a/5
33-7/9

6-6a/5 is the best example to consider the implications all round; mainly because it makes clear how things will get out of hand if the right things aren't said to the right people at the right time.

The scenario is given as - In stroke play, a competitor returned a wrong score because his score card did not include a penalty he had incurred. The competitor was unaware that he had incurred the penalty. The competitor's marker (a fellow-competitor) was aware of the penalty but nevertheless signed the card. The facts were discovered before the result of the competition was officially announced.

Now, the FC may have thought that the player knew he had a penalty and was looking to avoid any confrontation (normal) but as a result of saying nothing before the card was returned both get DQ and both are extremely annoyed because it was entirely avoidable!

Question softly at the time eg "Are you sure you can do that?" "I thought that...."etc
Do not continue any discussions to an argument on the course - if you are unhappy with the response just nod and raise it with the committee after the game; you have done everything perfectly correctly and ensured that any misunderstandings aren't the issue.
If the issue is about what happened rather than whether it's permissible ie a question of fact remains eg you moved your ball - no I didn't etc then firstly you at least establish a baseline for the subsequent inquest!

I've always regretted that Monty Python didn't do a sketch around the 'clear cut cheat' where, for example, a player kicks his ball out of the rough onto the fairway whilst looking the other way and an argument starts with another player.....

Oi, you can't do that, thats a penalty
Can't do what?
Move your ball out the rough
I didn't!
Yes you did, I saw you
No I didn't
Did
Didn't
Oh look (points at rough) there's a squirrel - must have moved my ball when I wasn't watching...
No, I saw you kick it out
Oh, you saw me kick it did you - what colour are my shoes? (hiding them behind a golf bag)
Brown
Make?
Footjoy
Model, size and spike pattern???
This is silly, I saw you kick your ball!
Didn't.....
:)
Click to expand...

Have you just returned from the pub :cheers:
 
Beezerk said:
Well yes I'm sure as I/we saw it happen numerous times. We decided to let it drop as we didn't need the hassle of a potential argument given the stature of the person at the club.
For the record it was playing from the fairway, the rest of us mortals have to use mats or pick/place onto the first cut throughout January. I guess I'm hoping it was a genuine mistake but as captain I would expect them to know the local rules.
Click to expand...

could be a genuine mistake. Wouldnt it have been nice of you just to point it out in a non confrontational way?

what if he/she was teeing off the wrong boxes, would you not 'help' them before they get penalised or DQ'd.

I am also curious as to what the playing partners did (or didnt do)
 
duncan mackie said:
...
I've always regretted that Monty Python didn't do a sketch around the 'clear cut cheat' where, for example, a player kicks his ball out of the rough onto the fairway whilst looking the other way and an argument starts with another player.....

Oi, you can't do that, thats a penalty
Can't do what?
Move your ball out the rough
I didn't!
Yes you did, I saw you
No I didn't
Did
Didn't
Oh look (points at rough) there's a squirrel - must have moved my ball when I wasn't watching...
No, I saw you kick it out
Oh, you saw me kick it did you - what colour are my shoes? (hiding them behind a golf bag)
Brown
Make?
Footjoy
Model, size and spike pattern???
This is silly, I saw you kick your ball!
Didn't.....
:)
Click to expand...

:rofl:

I can actually picture the entire skit! And I'm not a particularly great fan of Python. :whistle:

Palin and/or Cleese in either role!
 
Too late to do ask the persons concerned. By all means have a quiet word with a committee member, and ask if a general notice can be put out to members - you could say why you are raising it but way too late to make a thing of it with the culprit - let the committee do that if they want.
 
its tricky, I see various minor rules infringements but just let them go, I cant be bothered with all the argueing.
 
CMAC said:
I am also curious as to what the playing partners did (or didnt do)
Click to expand...

It was my PP who actually pointed it out at first, I was preoccupied/miffed with them appearing in front of us (another club rule broken as you're not supposed to start on 12 if someone is playing 11) so it was a double whammy by the capt. And it wasn't a comp so no harm done apart from to the course and my ego :thup:
 
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