Anyone use an Iphone or similar as a DMD?? Best read this!!!

[Robobum]

Would seem that you will need to be careful on what apps you have on your handset, regardless of whether you use them or not!!!

USGA and R&A joint decision on electronic devices

 

[Scott1505]

Interesting stuff. I use Golfshot which is a really good app but never use the club selection part as knew this wasn't legal but obviously until they now update the software i wont be able to use it. I have sent them an e-mail so will see if they respond.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So we need a list of what devices are legal and what devices should be burnt at the stake

 

[Fyldewhite]

Yes, very interesting. I'm usually a big supporter of the rules bodies but this is one where I think they have got it wrong and are fast getting deeper into a hole they will not be able to get out of due to the advances in technology.

Firstly, allowing it to be by Local rule only was a mistake. It should be a rule of golf one way or another then at least we are all on the same page.

Second, wouldn't it be easier to make the rule say something like "The use of electronic devices to measure distance during a round is allowed. The use of devices to measure any other condition such as wind speed, gradient etc it not allowed". ie Make the rule about the functionality rather than about the device itself and leave it up to the player to play to the rules or be called a cheat..... just like with so many other rules that are open to abuse.

I can see another "Conforming/non-conforming" list on the horizon but with the pace of technology change it will be a nightmare.

 

[USER1999]

I am with you on that one. Why not come out and say it, DMDs are conforming to the rules, any thing else is not. No local rule, just one rule for all. I hate all this provision for a local rule junk.

 

[Robobum]

As I understand it, technology has proven too fast for the rule makers but they felt they had to do something and so allowed it as a local rule.

The next rules revision is in 2012, perhaps it will become a "proper" ruling then.

 

[USER1999]

I don't think it will. I don't think you will ever see a caddy holding one in a tournament, and they play by the same rules we do. Whilst there is a provision for a local rule, then they can still ban them for tournament use.

 

[haplesshacker]

So in reality, mobiles, iphones and PDAs are allowed as long as they give distance information only.

If you have a video of somone playing a lob shot, then the unit is deemed illegal. Even if you don't watch that video on the course. (They'll have to find it first!)

So where does your own notes on how to play a type of shot sit?

If you have a notes sheet on your phone / pda, giving you the distances of your clubs for you then that is okay if it's your personnal distances. But if it's a generic 'app' giving general distances, then that's not okay!? (That's how I read it anyway!)

In reality, who's going to be looking at video on a pda before every shot anyway?

As for wind strength. I'm not aware of any mobile or pda that can give you on the spot wind info. Let alone calculate on the spot gradients, wind angle, best trajectory to play your shot etc.

Knee jerk rule making at it's worst.

The rule makers cannot and will not be able to keep up with technology,

 

[PhilTheFragger]

It is very true that technology has improved dramatically over the last 5 years and it is part of most peoples way of life.

Golf is no exception, it must keep up, and be seen to keep up, with the changes.or at least acknowledge them.

However I think that there is a limit in any sport over which technology must not step and I think we have now reached that limit in Golf

Im happy with a viewable rangefinder or a hand help GPS that tells you distance only. anything else that gives help to shot/club selection etc is a bad thing.

Besides you cannot have a generic app that fits all

I know i can hit a 7 iron about 140 yards, but little bro can do that with a 9 iron, so to make it work, you would have to put in your individual ranges for each club and update these over time.

I cant be bothered, if the range is 160 yards, I will pull out a 5 or 6 depending on the wind direction, I dont need a box of tricks telling me that, it takes half the fun out of the game. It just isnt cricket

So I think that the R&A have got the right general policy, but I agree that the local rule issue is a bit silly

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't actually think there would be anything wrong with producing a definitive conforming list. It'll take the ambiguity away. Similarly it needs a clear ruling. If your device is a distance only device then it should be playable in club, county and international events. Why is my club allows them in club matches and comps and others don't. How is that fair?

 

[thecraw]

I think it stinks of the big boys spitting the dummy and puting pressure on the ruling bodies.

Skycaddie/Golfbuddy or whatever at min £160 or a £25 download. Its a no brainer for someone on a budget!

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Hi folks, I'm going to be a tad controversial (again, some of you may say) by stating that I have never liked DMD's since day one. IMO they should never have been allowed anywhere near either a rule book or a golf course. Part of the skill (and fun) of the game for centuries was in letting your eyes decide the distances to pin/green/bunker...etc, not some electronic device. I believe that the R&A have opened up a can of worms with this, and the lid will not now go back on !!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Got to say I'm a firm fan (quelle surprise). For the average player it really helps take the guess work away and for me they are brilliant from 100 yards in for making sure I use the right wedge to get as close as I can.

I agree that you need to have a rough idea how far you hit a normal shot but if you have any sort of accurate idea it takes the doubt away. All you have to do then is trust your swing and go for it which in my case where the problems come in

 

[Robobum]

Hi folks, I'm going to be a tad controversial (again, some of you may say) by stating that I have never liked DMD's since day one. IMO they should never have been allowed anywhere near either a rule book or a golf course. Part of the skill (and fun) of the game for centuries was in letting your eyes decide the distances to pin/green/bunker...etc, not some electronic device. I believe that the R&A have opened up a can of worms with this, and the lid will not now go back on !!

For fear of repeating what has been said 1000 times, this is an extraction from the above article:

"Permitting the use of a measuring device to provide the same information that can be obtained through use of a yardage book or on-course markings is not considered to diminish the skill level required to play the game."

 

[didsbury_duffer]

This is my first post on this subject, Robobum, and so I apologise if I am boring many forumers who have discussed this before at length. And I did read the article you highlighted in your opening gambit. However, it still doesn't change my view on the issue, which I am entitled to air on this forum.
The issue I have is - where will it all end?? We already appear to have apps that can tell you what club to hit, the direction and strength of the wind. Before long there will be further apps that tell you which nutritional bar to eat and on which hole, and diagnostic intel on the surface variations of the greens. Maybe a Terminator-style electronic eye is currently in R&D?
If the information is available, some people will use it.

 

[Imurg]

Hi folks, I'm going to be a tad controversial (again, some of you may say) by stating that I have never liked DMD's since day one. IMO they should never have been allowed anywhere near either a rule book or a golf course. Part of the skill (and fun) of the game for centuries was in letting your eyes decide the distances to pin/green/bunker...etc, not some electronic device. I believe that the R&A have opened up a can of worms with this, and the lid will not now go back on !!

Ok you're entitled to your opinion but the fact is that they have been allowed and now they've got to clarify the situation.

With regard to tournament play, the caddies don't need to hold one while their boss is playing as they've already done it during the practice rounds. And anyway, if the R&A can ban certain grooves for tournaments they can ban DMD's too if they want to.

The local rule idea should be the other way round. Make a local rule if you DON't want DMD's to be used. That way the majority don't have to do anything and the clubs that don't want to have them need to do the work.

Is it reasonable to assume that clubs whose courses are available on DMD's have made the local rule? If that's the case there can't be that many that havn't - there are obviously a few but not a huge amount.

 

[backwoodsman]

Is it reasonable to assume that clubs whose courses are available on DMD's have made the local rule? If that's the case there can't be that many that havn't - there are obviously a few but not a huge amount.

Nope, it's not reasonable to assume that. My course is mapped for DMDs but the club doesn't allow their use (and so far has said it doesn't intend to).

On the other side of things, so far I've only come across one course (Rickmansworth) that won't allow the "measurers" to map it. I sent in a request to Skycaddie for it to be mapped and they replied that they had asked several times, but the course manager would not give in. So there are some who'll stand by their principles (g*ts)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree that they are here to stay in the amateur game for the foreseeable future to some degree or another but I doubt we'll get to the stage of pros using them during tournaments. I agree that the easiest solution is to make them legal and them make the clubs introduce the local rule and therefore have to justify to the members why they aren't allowed.

 

[Pants]

The issue I have is - where will it all end?? We already appear to have apps that can tell you what club to hit, the direction and strength of the wind. Before long there will be further apps that tell you which nutritional bar to eat and on which hole, and diagnostic intel on the surface variations of the greens. Maybe a Terminator-style electronic eye is currently in R&D?
If the information is available, some people will use it.

As far as I can see in the OP link, the R & A have defined the limit. They have defined what is (subject to local rule etc) allowed and what is not.

Yes. Some people will cheat, either intentionally or through ignorance. No change there

The Motocaddy S3 Digital used to come with temperature readout and goodness knows what else. This was of course not in compliance with R & A rules. The current advertising blurb from Motocaddy doesn't now mention this feature and only mentions that the DMD can be disabled if necessary. My interpretation of the rules is that this is still non-complying if there is no local rule allowing DMD. Effectively anyone with one of the older trolleys cannot use them in competitions at all and can't use the newer trolleys if the course does not allow DMD.

I haven't bothered to look at other trolley manufacturers to see how they comply.

And how about the Busnell laser device that allows for slope. How can they blatently advertise Built-in inclinometer measures slope, +/- one degree of angle, and compensated range, based upon ball trajectory and type of club used . No wonder peoples get confused.

 

[Imurg]

And how about the Busnell laser device that allows for slope. How can they blatently advertise Built-in inclinometer measures slope, +/- one degree of angle, and compensated range, based upon ball trajectory and type of club used . No wonder peoples get confused.

Because a lot of golf is played out of competition and these devices can be used along with non-conforming drivers, wedges with grooves a mile wide and balls that go 500 yards.
In competition they're a no-no but in a social game or practice rounds or just playing for fun there's no restriction. These are also used by Pro's during practice rounds.
And although the R&A have defined the rules/limits, they've opened it to ambiguity by leaving it to clubs/Commitees to make the final decision. That's why you get the situation where, on the same course, Men can use them but the Women can't, or being a member of 2 clubs - one that allows it and one that doesn't. That's where the confusion comes in.