Another fave old chestnut

[CrapHacker]

I know it keeps on coming up, but I'm yet to be convinced.

How important is length off the tee ? Obviously with iron distances to match.

I've played Copthorne off the back tees, which isn't overly long, but it's tight to make up for it. But it's still 6400 yards. If I ever managed to play my best round there I could hope to play to about 14.

Yesterday I played Rookwood in Horsham, which was set up for a society do. It was playing 6000 yards, which is only 10-15 yards less per hole, but that made a huge difference.

I was playing a 4w off the tee on many holes, and still leaving myself 6i-wedge in to the green. If I did that at Copthorne I'd be hitting hybrid every time.

Now I know that SSS is meant to take care of that, but I'm reckoning that I could, again if I played to my <u>optimum</u> go round in 9 over par.

Which is 5 shots less. There's no way Rookwood has a SSS of 67.

In conclusion, m'lud. A longer hitter of exactly the same skill as me is going to have a handicap of 2 or 3 shots less than I do.

So all this stuff about 'short and straight' is guff put about by long hitters who want to keep their edge.

The way to cut a couple of shots off your handicap has to be to learn to hit the ball 10% further.

Then improving the short game, and accuracy on top of that will see your handicap plummet.

But the distance has to come first, donchathink ?

 

[drawboy]

There is no denying that players who have long driving games are usually lower handicap players. Even mid handicappers are more accurate with 9 down so the chances of more pars increases. Birdies are great but to lower your handicap 2 to the green and 2 putts more often is going to be the way, after all 18 pars equals scratch.So for me being long off the tee providing it is reasonably accurate is the key.

 

[CrapHacker]

What do you play off Drawboy ?

 

[Imurg]

Arnie used to say "Learn to hit it hard, then learn to hit it straight".
Certainly at my course, not long at 6166 yards, length is a bonus. We have 2 short par 3's (only 130 yards) and 3 others in the 160-170 range. This leaves a fair bit of yardage for the par 4's (only 2 under 400 yards except the 1st which almost plays as a par 5 for various reasons).
Being able to hit a driver 250 and more often leaves me only a mid to shortish iron in. But some who can only make 220 are hitting hybrids or woods in.
Hitting an iron will generally be more accurate than a wood.

So while length is good, it has to be accurate length. 30 yards further up the track but in waist high rough is a waste of time. 30 further up in the middle isn't.

 

[haplesshacker]

Interesting.

My lowest scores have always come when the driver and three wood are behaving. Ie. Damn long drives and the ball being in a playable position. My mid scores happen when my driving falls apart, but my second shots are going really well. My putting is fairly consistent, so it has no real effect on the overall outcome. Though it could be improved!

It's penalty shots off the tee that cost me dearly when I'm not firing well.

I don't think that length is everything, but it stands to reason that the shorter club you leave yourself into the green, the more likely you'll get GIR. But that's where the h'cap comes in, and shot / course mgt.

Back to SSS. I've played some easy courses, and some tough ones. How can it be right that one player can play off 12, at one club, and can hardly play to 18 at another. We, tend to judge a players ability by their h'cap, rightly or wrongly). And yet we have no idea on what type of track that h'cap was obtained.

It's obvious that a three h'capper is a better, more consistent player than a 28 h'capper. But what about a 14 compared to a 16 or 18 h'capper?

Not sure if my post is making sense as I type away on the phone!

 

[drawboy]

What do you play off Drawboy ?

15.

 

[Spartacus]

Straightness and accuracy is the key to lower scores.

If you can hit drives >250 but can't chip and putt then you will have problems.

If you hit <230 but can hit long irons and woods straight then greens will still be hit.

The myth is that if you can't hit long then you can't hit straight. One round with the seniors will put that myth to bed.

Some courses require drives >240 just to reach the fairway. On these courses then the 'little' hitters may struggle.

Some course have plenty of trouble 100 yards and in. The crap short game but great long game players may struggle here too.

The key is to have a steady all round game with the ability to hit at least >200 yards straight off the tee.

 

[RGDave]

How important is length off the tee ? Obviously with iron distances to match.

Well. I can't reach a few holes on my course and when I'm in top gear it costs me shots.
The thing is though, if I bogey those and par the rest (average counting birdies as cancelling out bogeys) I should still play to less than 5 over gross if I'm hitting it half decent. No point concerning oneself with distance if shots are being wasted elsewhere.

Today's game I had 165 to go on a 402 yd par 4. The other 3 in my group all hit wedges from about 110. I can't ever remember witnessing such a dramatic difference with 4 balls all down the middle.

 

[GB72]

I certainly noticed the difference with the extra length on bone dry fairways the other week. Certainly there is a massive difference when playing mid irons to the green instead of hybrid or fairway wood and the third shot on the par 5s was only a wedge as opposed to a 8/9 iron. Even with the extra roll, however, we still have 1 par 4 that I cannot reach with my 2 Sunday best shots whereas the longer hitters in my group can reach it easily in 2. Basically there is a steep slope at the end of the fairway and if you can reach that then you are get a massive extra roll. The longer hitters reach the slope and are playing driver 7 iron whereas I am playing driver, 3 wood wedge to reach the green.

 

[User 105]

If you're a long driver and you're 'bad ones' aren't getting you in bad trouble then it's got to be a huge advantage.

It's got to help you're scores if you're coming in with wedges and short irons rather than 6i and up. A bad wedge is never going to be a bad as a bad 6i and you're going to find it much easier to stop it one the green, especially when the greens are as hard as they have been recently.

My mate plays off 2 and he's a massive hitter. Most of the par 4's at our place are a driver and sand wedge for him. There's about 3 par 4's if he's got the wind behind he can drive the green and a couple where he'll use a hybrid off the tee otherwise he'll drive it into the ditch in front of the green.

It is interesting that if he does leave one in the 6i range he struggles because he hardly ever hits his irons. Just drivers and wedges.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The key to Ascot is getting it in play off the tee. Although a lot of our seniors struggle off the whites (we have a few big carrys) they are usually the epitomy of consistancy. I played with a guy today who shot to his handicap (11) and hardly missed a fairway. He was only 200 yards max off the tee but never in any danger. if he had a short game with him he'd have walked it.

I've never been a long hitter anyway so if I'm having a good driving day I can be quite dangerous but if not I struggle to get to a lot of holes in regulation. I'd still rather try and be 230 on the fairway everytime (getting there slowly)

 

[CrapHacker]

Well. I can't reach a few holes on my course and when I'm in top gear it costs me shots.
The thing is though, if I bogey those and par the rest (average counting birdies as cancelling out bogeys) I should still play to less than 5 over gross if I'm hitting it half decent. No point concerning oneself with distance if shots are being wasted elsewhere.

I sort of agree in a disagreeing kind of way.

Obviously we all waste shots by decelerating on a half wedge shot coz we never practise the blimmin' shot enough.

And 3 putts, and all sorts of other dribbled shots that disappear without so much as a 'by your leave'.

But

If you were playing two clubs less into every par four that you can reach, you'll be better off in several ways.

Of course you'll get nearer the pin, so you'll hopefully pick up a shot or two that way.

But you'll also feel better in your whole game by being just that little bit bigger than you used to be. ( It's an ego thing, for all you lady golfers out there that don't understand such 'man stuff' )

Hitting a golf ball is about technique, and timing, rather than shear brute strength. Surely it must be easier to learn to hit the ball 10% cleaner, rather than learning to pitch a ball dead from 100 yards in. Doesn't that take a good player 3 different swings with 3 diferent clubs to learn how to do it properly and consistantly?

Not saying don't practise the short game, but I've read so many times about how short and straight wins the match. If you hit the ball 10% better ( or even 5% would still make one club's difference ) then it'll still go as straight as your current shots do.

So I reach previously unreachable holes. I'm playing shorter clubs into the mid length holes. And I'm playing 4w instead of driver on the shorter, tighter holes, to keep it in play off the tee.

Which sounds rather nice to me.

 

[CrapHacker]

Arnie used to say "Learn to hit it hard, then learn to hit it straight".

So while length is good, it has to be accurate length. 30 yards further up the track but in waist high rough is a waste of time. 30 further up in the middle isn't.

Arnie said that, and Jack said something similar too.

And Henry Cotton developed to tyre drills for young pros maximise their distance.

Maybe these guys know something about the game

 

[RGDave]

Arnie used to say "Learn to hit it hard, then learn to hit it straight".

So while length is good, it has to be accurate length. 30 yards further up the track but in waist high rough is a waste of time. 30 further up in the middle isn't.

Arnie said that, and Jack said something similar too.

And Henry Cotton developed to tyre drills for young pros maximise their distance.

Maybe these guys know something about the game

Yes, and I figured out how to hit it straight (mostly) first. Hence my frustration.

 

[Region3]

Distance is a HUGE advantage imo. I don't mind being in the first cut, although in the trees is obviously bad.

I'm not a big hitter but I'd say I was longer than average.

If your 30yds shorter off the tee but dead straight most of the time, you'll also be shorter with your irons, maybe 10-15yds with each club?

I reckon I would easily save more shots by hitting 3 or 4 clubs less into greens, than I would lose by hitting a few wayward drives.

 

[Leftie]

Speaking as a Vet who apparently can't hit a drive more than 150 yds (on a good day according to Murph ), lay up short of the trouble in front of the green in 2, chip and a putt for par/3 points or at worst 2 putts for bogie net par and 2 points.

On to the next tee. Onwards and upwards.....