Alternatives to the conventional swing?

[JustOne]

If you are not playing well and don't appear to be getting anywhere with your game you might fancy a swing change.

Seeing as every thread that mentions stack and tilt seems to start an arguement of sorts (even if someone is just thinking of trying it), what ARE the forums choices/recommendations to be taken into consideration if you are quite simply not very good? What are the viable swing alternatives? Apparently (so I keep hearing) there is more than one way to skin a cat

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Surely the best thing to do is see an expert?
Go to a pro who can then point out what is going wrong.

If you film your swing and look at it with a pro who can point out what should be and what shouldn't you get a much better idea of things.

From there you can look at correcting problems.

Personally I'd think it could be quite a risk to try to build a whole new swing by yourself, as you may think you are doing a certain movement/action whereas in reality you could be wrong.

 

[john0]

Try left handed clubs!

 

[CrapHacker]

This genuinely helps consitant ball contact.

But I just don't see how any power can be generated.

Fine if you have arms like tree trunks maybe, or maybe I'm just missing something.

It does keep the body still, though, so there are some things that are not bad ideas to consider.

 

[chrisd]

Most people dont get an "alternative". Whatever your Pro teaches is generally what you get. Very few like, or teach, S&T and therefore most Pro's neither really know its components, or are so against it, that they wouldn't teach it anyway. In many ways it depends on your level of play as the needs of a beginner is quite different to a 10 handicapper and by the time your handicap comes down to near single figures you probably have a better understanding of the golf swing and can decide the direction that you want lessons to go in. Lessons with a Pro are really a question of finding one in whom you trust and dont necessarily become a slave to any one idea- after all - there are many ways to hit a ball well and you only need to find the way that gets you round in the score that is good for you.


Chris

 

[USER1999]

Define a conventional swing?

From what I have seen, they are all very different. Stand by the first tee at your club, and watch some groups tee off. You won't see two the same, and most will be awful, and yet they are essentially trying to do the same thing.

If you go for a lesson, you are effectively being taught the swing of the guy teaching you. This might be ok, maybe not. You might not be physically capable of what he is asking.

For me, it is actually very difficult to change a golf swing. I have played for 20+ years, and so that swing is pretty ingrained. Would a course of 6 lessons undo 20 years of habit?

Pretty much every one I see has a different swing. Where do they have lessons? And from Whom?

 

[golfandmoregolf]

Yes Murph you are bang on mate,totally agree.......

 

[Deleted member 1147]

In my opinion a good teaching pro will work with what he has. He won't just try to make everyone play the same way. He'll adapt what the player has already (physique, age, inclination to improve etc) and try to make that work better.

A poor teaching pro will try to make everyone swing the same, he IMHO isn't a "teacher", he's just someone who knows how it should be done.

For example:

My regular playing partner took up golf @ 40. He had back trouble when he was younger and so struggled with the game. He used to hit a big slice as he had an out to in swing path.

He went for a lesson with our club pro. The pro asked him what exactly he wanted from the lesson, a new swing or to work with what he had and improve that?

He opted for the latter, he was told to move his right foot back abit, this makes him have a flatter swing and got him down to a 9 handicap.

To him that lesson was a success.

 

[USER1999]

That isn't really a golf lesson, it's a bug fix.

One of the reasons why guys end up with weird swings, is that they change a fault with another fault to fix things. As a result, something else goes wrong that needs another sticky plaster.

A guy I know has the toe of his driver pointing at the ground, his right heel raised, left toe up, stands 40 degrees closed minimum, and his back swing bounces the club off his left shoulder. He hits the ball suprisingly well, but how he found this out, I'll never know. I guess it all just crept up on him. A little tweak here, another there.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Agreed it isn't a lesson to give the perfect swing but it means he can go round in 80 most weekends and and enjoy his golf.
I read of plenty of people on here having lessons by the bucket load, changing clubs incessantly and still not being that good.
He didn't want to re-build his swing as he wouldn't enjoy his golf as much whilst bedding in the rebuild.

I, on the other hand, did want to do it as a re-build and accepted that whilst I learnt it all properly I'd suffer with the frustrations etc.

Therefore a good pro teaches the player not the swing.

 

[JustOne]

Agreed it isn't a lesson to give the perfect swing but it means he can go round in 80 most weekends and and enjoy his golf.

What if he went round in 80 but didn't enjoy it?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you want an alternative to S&T and more technically correct models you can try the speedy power lift I've perfected. Coming to a course near you. Actually it is an old swing and I'm actually much better now but it proves that not everything is textbook and can still get results (sometimes)



Actually I think the point about a good teacher moulding his lesson to the pupil's ability is spot on. I'm sure Bob wouldn't teach one of his senior members in the same way as one of the juniors and it's about maximising potential. That said, the responsibility is with the pupil to practice diligently and have regular swing checks to make sure progress is maintained. These guys going for one off lessons are getting nothing but a band-aid to cover one tiny fault, not a cure for all ailments

 

[kid2]

My own opinion is that you need a certain amount of natural ability to play the game....As has been said everyone has there own way of swinging a club......Regardless of how its swung if the clubhead can be got back square at impact the shot will be good.......

I play with what comes naturally to me and have been told that i have a nice swing.....Iv never had a lesson yet as thats not where the weakness in my game lies......

But i do know for some that there desire to play the game can far outway there ability......This can have positive and negative impacts ......

On our 1st tee on a sunday morning the amount of different swings i see is brilliant......Here are guys that love the game and have varying handicaps but they all have one goal and thats to get the little white chap going forward....

I believe it takes a certain character of player and teacher to be able to get the best from a bad situation.....You need a pro that works with what a player has and maximises his potential with as little upset as possible to the players swing......

 

[percy_layer]

Interesting post,

in my opinion, what is a conventional swing?????

Two plane swing, one plane swing, natural swing, slot swing, reverse slot swing, stack and tilt...........etc

Also, what do you want the golf swing to achieve????

Look nice or give you control of where the golf ball goes???

In my opinion a good coach helps improve the player with what they naturally have, modifying or incorporating whatever movement or adjustment is necessary and achieveable. Whether that involves an element of one of the swing styles or not.

All golf swings are developed to strike a golf ball in such a way that the player has control of its flight, distance and direction regardless of what style it is or looks like.

 

[RGDave]

I recommend the "PPP" swing with an element of the "tortoise" technique.

Pivot, plane and path....(nothing else matters) and
hit the ball so slowly that the theory of timing is non-existent.

Works for me.

 

[JustOne]

This genuinely helps consitant ball contact.

Says who?

I hated it when I tried it, fatted everything. Wristy and inconsistent would be my summary of it. Can't see how you can make a consistent strike down onto the ball if your spine is angled away from the target and you're only swinging with the arms. The maths doesn't add up and to me this line is VERY worrying....

"We start the swing sequence by moving the club back with the hand and arms but we keep the body angles the same. The key to a simple swing, there is very little turn at this point"

Besides, there is only one 'qualified' teacher in the whole of Europe and, in my opinion, not only is he a total and utter 100% bonafide knob (I've met him loads of times so I should know!) but no one uses the swing with any degree of success unless you count one obscure person winning a minor tournie over a year ago. Hardly a real alternative.

 

[JustOne]

Interesting post,

in my opinion, what is a conventional swing?????

Two plane swing, one plane swing, natural swing, slot swing, reverse slot swing, stack and tilt...........etc

I'd imagine conventional would be the swing of the masses as taught by your local PGA pro where some shift of weight to the back foot is encouraged, the spine tilts away from the target at address and the shoulders turn on quite a flat plane? Is there any other that is used so widespread that it can be labelled as conventional?

You are absolutely right, the key is...
what do you want the golf swing to achieve???? and if it already does for you what you want it to then you can't ask for any more than that,...and if it doesn't?

(back to the original question..... what's your choices?)

 

[CrapHacker]

This genuinely helps consitant ball contact.

Says who?

Says me !

I hated it when I tried it, fatted everything. Wristy and inconsistent would be my summary of it. Can't see how you can make a consistent strike down onto the ball if your spine is angled away from the target and you're only swinging with the arms. The maths doesn't add up and to me this line is VERY worrying....

"We start the swing sequence by moving the club back with the hand and arms but we keep the body angles the same. The key to a simple swing, there is very little turn at this point"

Besides, there is only one 'qualified' teacher in the whole of Europe and, in my opinion, not only is he a total and utter 100% bonafide knob (I've met him loads of times so I should know!) ....

I had one lesson of it and after about 5 minutes hit everything right out the middle of the club.

But.

Nothing went more than about 80 yards. I may exagerate a tad, but thems the facts (ish ).

I wasn't instructed by the top guy, I had one of the assisitants.

..but no one uses the swing with any degree of success unless you count one obscure person winning a minor tournie over a year ago. Hardly a real alternative.

Anyway I'm not talking about S&T, so why bring it up, here

 

[percy_layer]

Interesting post,

in my opinion, what is a conventional swing?????

Two plane swing, one plane swing, natural swing, slot swing, reverse slot swing, stack and tilt...........etc

I'd imagine conventional would be the swing of the masses as taught by your local PGA pro where some shift of weight to the back foot is encouraged, the spine tilts away from the target at address and the shoulders turn on quite a flat plane? Is there any other that is used so widespread that it can be labelled as conventional?

You are absolutely right, the key is...
what do you want the golf swing to achieve???? and if it already does for you what you want it to then you can't ask for any more than that,...and if it doesn't?

(back to the original question..... what's your choices?)

2 turns and a swish, see what that produces and improve where necessary. I like to keep things simple