balaclava
Assistant Pro
If, at the beginning of a matchplay, I am asked to agree that I will hold the flag for you and you will hold the flag for me and I agree, what am I agreeing to? Am I agreeing to anyting more than simply holding the flag?
"Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
- Thread starter balaclava
- Start date
chris661
Money List Winner
No there is nothing to say you have to hold the flag for your opponent, just makes sense I guess.
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
LOL - if someone was daft enough to ask that question I'd be tempted to ask them had they forgotten their meds that morning.
LOL - if someone was daft enough to ask that question I'd be tempted to ask them had they forgotten their meds that morning.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Oddly, if someone is standing near the flag, they can be deemed to be tending it whether they want to or not. However, if they fail to pull it, and you hit it from on the green, the penalty is on you. Work that one out.
Oddly, if someone is standing near the flag, they can be deemed to be tending it whether they want to or not. However, if they fail to pull it, and you hit it from on the green, the penalty is on you. Work that one out.
FaldosJumper
Challenge Tour Pro
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Strange thing to say... in singles matchplay (which I think this refers to mainly) I would offer out of politeness and expect the same in return... strange thing to say all the same, I suppose a 'this will be long round' thought would cross my mind... and a very strong desire to shove the said thing right up his @rse!
Strange thing to say... in singles matchplay (which I think this refers to mainly) I would offer out of politeness and expect the same in return... strange thing to say all the same, I suppose a 'this will be long round' thought would cross my mind... and a very strong desire to shove the said thing right up his @rse!
Naybrains
Tour Rookie
Na, your having a larf!
Gone fishing?
rosecott
Money List Winner
Someone - naming no names - will come along with a homophobic comment.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Complicated one this. In some cases yes but your opponent can't deliberatly leave the flag in to get you penalised or to influence your ball.
Decision 17-3/2 Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Attending Flagstick for Player Fails to Remove It; Player's Ball Strikes Flagstick
"Q. A requests B, his opponent or a fellow-competitor, to attend the flagstick, and B complies. A putts too firmly and B fails to remove the flagstick. A's ball strikes the flagstick. What is the ruling?
A. If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified in both match play and stroke play for a serious breach of Rule 1-2. In stroke play, in equity (Rule 1-4) A must replay the stroke without penalty.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was for the purpose of preventing A's ball from going beyond the flagstick and not for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, in match play B lost the hole under Rule 1-2 when he failed to remove the flagstick before A's ball reached the hole. The fact that A's ball subsequently struck the flagstick (a breach of Rule 17-3a) is irrelevant since B had already lost the hole. In stroke play, B incurs a penalty of two strokes under Rule 1-2, and A incurs the same penalty under Rule 17-3a.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate, e.g. the flagstick stuck in the socket or B was distracted and did not see A putt, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play under Rule 17-3. B incurs no penalty."
But how do you decide if it was deliberate? Can see that one leading to unpleasant scenes.
Complicated one this. In some cases yes but your opponent can't deliberatly leave the flag in to get you penalised or to influence your ball.
Decision 17-3/2 Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Attending Flagstick for Player Fails to Remove It; Player's Ball Strikes Flagstick
"Q. A requests B, his opponent or a fellow-competitor, to attend the flagstick, and B complies. A putts too firmly and B fails to remove the flagstick. A's ball strikes the flagstick. What is the ruling?
A. If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified in both match play and stroke play for a serious breach of Rule 1-2. In stroke play, in equity (Rule 1-4) A must replay the stroke without penalty.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was for the purpose of preventing A's ball from going beyond the flagstick and not for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, in match play B lost the hole under Rule 1-2 when he failed to remove the flagstick before A's ball reached the hole. The fact that A's ball subsequently struck the flagstick (a breach of Rule 17-3a) is irrelevant since B had already lost the hole. In stroke play, B incurs a penalty of two strokes under Rule 1-2, and A incurs the same penalty under Rule 17-3a.
If B's failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate, e.g. the flagstick stuck in the socket or B was distracted and did not see A putt, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play under Rule 17-3. B incurs no penalty."
But how do you decide if it was deliberate? Can see that one leading to unpleasant scenes.
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
If they are two competent golfers with any idea of etiquette, that conversation should never have even arose.
If they are two competent golfers with any idea of etiquette, that conversation should never have even arose.
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
exactly, sounds like maybe new to golf?
exactly, sounds like maybe new to golf?
balaclava
Assistant Pro
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
The reason I ask the question is because it is being suggested that by agreeing to hold the flag one is agreeing not to have a caddy.
The details:
It was a Ladies finals comp and I was my wife’s caddy.
On the first tee the opposition (who had chosen not to have a caddy) suggested that they both agree to “hold the flag for each other.†My wife, perplexed, but thinking this meant nothing more that simply holding a flag, agreed. The game commenced and the referee prohibited me from walking onto the greens because I was no longer a caddy. I later complained and the letter I got back suggests that as my wife agreed to ‘holding flags’ she had agreed that they would not have caddies.
Hence I ask the question - in golf / amongst golfers, does agreeing to hold each others flag mean agreeing not to have caddies?
The reason I ask the question is because it is being suggested that by agreeing to hold the flag one is agreeing not to have a caddy.
The details:
It was a Ladies finals comp and I was my wife’s caddy.
On the first tee the opposition (who had chosen not to have a caddy) suggested that they both agree to “hold the flag for each other.†My wife, perplexed, but thinking this meant nothing more that simply holding a flag, agreed. The game commenced and the referee prohibited me from walking onto the greens because I was no longer a caddy. I later complained and the letter I got back suggests that as my wife agreed to ‘holding flags’ she had agreed that they would not have caddies.
Hence I ask the question - in golf / amongst golfers, does agreeing to hold each others flag mean agreeing not to have caddies?
TonyN
Money List Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Thats a bit naughty IMO.. I see it like this.
The Lady (or a friend of a lady) your wife was playing had prior knowledge of this rule. Well done to them I guess. But..
Seeing you as a caddy, and them not having one probably struck a nerve. Wondering if she had maybe missed a trick and felt dis-advantaged. Why wouldn't she have herself a caddie?
Why couldn't she just suggest that neither have caddies or explain what she actually meant. Golf is not the kind of gfame I like to see this sort of behaviour in. Other sports maybe. But not golf.
Thats a bit naughty IMO.. I see it like this.
The Lady (or a friend of a lady) your wife was playing had prior knowledge of this rule. Well done to them I guess. But..
Seeing you as a caddy, and them not having one probably struck a nerve. Wondering if she had maybe missed a trick and felt dis-advantaged. Why wouldn't she have herself a caddie?
Why couldn't she just suggest that neither have caddies or explain what she actually meant. Golf is not the kind of gfame I like to see this sort of behaviour in. Other sports maybe. But not golf.
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
What a crock of poo. If the person is carrying/steering the bag, they are allowed onto the green.
What a crock of poo. If the person is carrying/steering the bag, they are allowed onto the green.
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
name and shame this ridiculous club
what utter Nonsense, what kind of a referee is that, by your wife saying "yes I'll hold a flag" automatically bans you from caddying...........I've heard it all now
name and shame this ridiculous club
balaclava
Assistant Pro
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Having been stiched up by the 'Ladies' I have the option to pursue the matter at a higher level. Is there an authority to whom these matters can be referred and who will give an opinion on:
1. Whether the rules have been properly applied.
2. Whether the sentiment of the game (fair play etc) have been properly followed?
Having been stiched up by the 'Ladies' I have the option to pursue the matter at a higher level. Is there an authority to whom these matters can be referred and who will give an opinion on:
1. Whether the rules have been properly applied.
2. Whether the sentiment of the game (fair play etc) have been properly followed?
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
go on to R&A website & email them , youl get difinative answer one way or the other , did you check the rules for this comp to make sure it wasnt stated in that ?
Leftie
Tour Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
I take it that your wife did not win the match then.
I take it that your wife did not win the match then.
balaclava
Assistant Pro
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
[/QUOTE]go on to R&A website & email them , youl get difinative answer one way or the other , did you check the rules for this comp to make sure it wasnt stated in that ?
[/QUOTE]
The rules for this comp? Are you suggesting that each comp has it's own rules; if that is the case where would a copy of the rules be kept?
[/QUOTE]go on to R&A website & email them , youl get difinative answer one way or the other , did you check the rules for this comp to make sure it wasnt stated in that ?
[/QUOTE]
The rules for this comp? Are you suggesting that each comp has it's own rules; if that is the case where would a copy of the rules be kept?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
Whilst a Committee can impose some conditions of competition they are not allowed to waive the Rules of Golf
Rule 33-1 Conditions; Waiving Rule
"The Committee must establish the conditions under which a competition is to be played.
The Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf."
Under the Rules of Golf a player is allowed to have a caddie.
Rule 6-4 - Caddie
"The player may be assisted by a caddie, but he is limited to only one caddie at any one time."
As I see it that's the end of the argument.
Whilst a Committee can impose some conditions of competition they are not allowed to waive the Rules of Golf
Rule 33-1 Conditions; Waiving Rule
"The Committee must establish the conditions under which a competition is to be played.
The Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf."
Under the Rules of Golf a player is allowed to have a caddie.
Rule 6-4 - Caddie
"The player may be assisted by a caddie, but he is limited to only one caddie at any one time."
As I see it that's the end of the argument.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Re: "Agree to hold the flag" - what does that mean?
go on to R&A website & email them , youl get difinative answer one way or the other , did you check the rules for this comp to make sure it wasnt stated in that ?
[/QUOTE]
The rules for this comp? Are you suggesting that each comp has it's own rules; if that is the case where would a copy of the rules be kept?
[/QUOTE]Mashie explained better than i ever could , thanks mate
go on to R&A website & email them , youl get difinative answer one way or the other , did you check the rules for this comp to make sure it wasnt stated in that ?
[/QUOTE]
The rules for this comp? Are you suggesting that each comp has it's own rules; if that is the case where would a copy of the rules be kept?
[/QUOTE]Mashie explained better than i ever could , thanks mate
