Achieving the negative down swing plane

[ShankyBoy]

I've been seeing a lot of improvement in my irons and driving thanks to reducing the big positive down swing plane (20%) to single figures (5%). When I see pro's at the top of the back swing, you see the club fall down vertically which really allows them to come in to out.

I just can't seem to get it though, what is the swing thought or body movement at the top that allows the club to fall down, giving that in-out swing to help draw the ball?

 

[bobmac]

It's a very good question and its why so many people slice the ball.
There's lots of ways to skin this cat but basically you need to try and keep your shoulders as square as possible at impact.
Now you can either work at the impact position which will affect the transition or work at the transition which will affect the impact. Both work but only you will know which is easier for you.

The most common fault I see is the shoulders following the hips.
The hips start to turn early in the transition and the shoulders follow, throwing the club outside the line. Slice/pull city all day.
If your shoulders can resist following your lower half for a bit longer they will have more chance of being more square at impact.



This is the position to aim for at impact with the hips open and the shoulders square.

HTH

 

[ger147]

It's a very good question and its why so many people slice the ball.
There's lots of ways to skin this cat but basically you need to try and keep your shoulders as square as possible at impact.
Now you can either work at the impact position which will affect the transition or work at the transition which will affect the impact. Both work but only you will know which is easier for you.

The most common fault I see is the shoulders following the hips.
The hips start to turn early in the transition and the shoulders follow, throwing the club outside the line. Slice/pull city all day.
If your shoulders can resist following your lower half for a bit longer they will have more chance of being more square at impact.

View attachment 18243

This is the position to aim for at impact with the hips open and the shoulders square.

HTH

Do you have any drills to work on to stop the shoulders firing at the same time as the hips?

 

[bobmac]

Do you have any drills to work on to stop the shoulders firing at the same time as the hips?

There's lots of swing thoughts you could try but my favourite is to put a slight pause at the top of the backswing. Not a 'stop' as such but a very slight separation.

Think of a childs' swing changing direction.
That often helps to keep everything together.

 

[sawtooth]

I think Leslie King does a very good job of describing the transition from backswing to downswing.

He calls it separation and talks about reversing the direction of the arms and the downward motion.

Not for everybody and some may think that his teachings are outdated.

 

[User 105]

Think of a childs' swing changing direction.

That's a really good way to think about it. Never thought of it quite like that.

I guess it also stops you 'hitting' from the top with you hands\arms. So you have a gradual acceleration into impact.

 

[ger147]

There's lots of swing thoughts you could try but my favourite is to put a slight pause at the top of the backswing. Not a 'stop' as such but a very slight separation.

Think of a childs' swing changing direction.
That often helps to keep everything together.

Are there any drills I can try? Swing thoughts don't really work for me.

 

[garyinderry]

What is a negative downswing plane?

The opposite of steep?

 

[ShankyBoy]

I'm not sure what steep is But for me, +ve is where the down swing essentially comes over the top of the backswing plane, causing the out-in/slice that 90% of us have. The goal is to be 0% on plane, but apparently most pros have a -ve downswing, so a -ve downswing is where you come under the backswing plane, to achieve in-out/draw. Bizarrely I can do it on a practice swing easily, but put a ball there and I suddenly go slightly positive again.

I have noticed that momentary pause at the top really helps (by luck really), but that diagram really helps knowing what the position goal is...will try at the range tonight.

 

[garyinderry]

Check youtube for...

Flatten shaft on downswing


There is loads of stuff on there.

 

[One Planer]

What is a negative downswing plane?

The opposite of steep?

I'm guessing straight down the target line is 0° anything left is negative, anything right positive?

 

[bobmac]

Are there any drills I can try? Swing thoughts don't really work for me.

Place two headcovers on the ground, one in front and one behind the ball. The back one should be about a foot behind and 4-6in outside the ball to target line. The front one should be the same but 4-6in left of the ball to target line as per the video below. The ball and the headcovers form the path a swing that comes out to in would take. (Left).
The idea is to hit the ball without hitting the headcovers

[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&index=33&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3 OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;P0iK5RI_H4U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0iK5RI_H4U[/video]

 

[Scratch lefty]

I'm not sure what steep is But for me, +ve is where the down swing essentially comes over the top of the backswing plane, causing the out-in/slice that 90% of us have. The goal is to be 0% on plane, but apparently most pros have a -ve downswing, so a -ve downswing is where you come under the backswing plane, to achieve in-out/draw. Bizarrely I can do it on a practice swing easily, but put a ball there and I suddenly go slightly positive again.

I have noticed that momentary pause at the top really helps (by luck really), but that diagram really helps knowing what the position goal is...will try at the range tonight.

Shankyboy, where have you conjured up this drivel on "negative down swing plane" as it doesn't even make sense fella

If your golf swing is anything like your terminology then you could be up a creek without a paddle.

 

[Foxholer]

Check youtube for...

Flatten shaft on downswing


There is loads of stuff on there.

While flattening the swing from a 'too steep' one is very likely to be beneficial, I'm certain that an out-to-in swing can still be generated from quite a flat swing too (if probably with a little more difficulty). It's just that the 'over-the-top' or 'casting' description becomes more a 'throwing the club' one!

The key, for me, is to stay balanced, with the weight/centre of gravity not shifting towards the toes (being dragged) as the club and arms moves in the arc of the swing from behind the head to in front of it. Btw. There's nothing specially important about my reference to the head other as a reference position.

Using a flatter swing to compensate for an OTT/Cast swing strikes me as introducing a 'new fault' to compensate for an existing one!

Bob's headcover drill has the great benefit of getting the player to adjust 'naturally', something I'm a great fan of!

 

[Three]

Drills are all well and good, but if a golfer can't physically separate his hip turn from his shoulder turn, it's going to be tough.

I think most of us would really benefit from a load of stretching to allow the hips and shoulders to turn independently of each other. Easier said than done as we get older....

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;p9k7COMF3LQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9k7COMF3LQ[/video]

 

[huds1475]

First video Gary....

'tooobe'.

Always reminds me of Professor Denzil Dexter...

[video=youtube;lLuzq1GKuao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLuzq1GKuao[/video]

 

[ShankyBoy]

Shankyboy, where have you conjured up this drivel on "negative down swing plane" as it doesn't even make sense fella If your golf swing is anything like your terminology then you could be up a creek without a paddle.

Thanks for that wonderful contribution. I didn't conjure it up. There is a swing plane, you can be above it (positive) or below it (negative), simple really.

 

[Scratch lefty]

Thanks for that wonderful contribution. I didn't conjure it up. There is a swing plane, you can be above it (positive) or below it (negative), simple really.

Oh boy.

Ok Mr 2D man what forces are you measuring to be positive and negative in a swing plane which exists in a 3D space?