A rule situation the seems that doesn't seem entirely fair.

[Robobum]

A rules situation cropped up today. I'm confident that we sorted it correctly, but it just never seemed that the penalty was sufficient.......

4bbb match play away vs another local club. We all play away, halving the first two holes in par. We tee off on 3 and whilst my partner is sticking his club away he notices that one of our opponents has 15 clubs, he counts again just to be 100% sure. So we chat whilst we walk to the green and ask the question of the guy as we get to our balls. He counted and, yes, there were 15 in his bag. Didnt seem as though it was deliberate, but a penalty just the same.

So, what penalty would you have applied?? I'll see what the thoughts are before saying why I think the penalty is inadequate, and seeing thoughts on that too

 

[coolhand]

Exactly what the rules state - loss of 2 holes - which seems resonable.

 

[louise_a]

Surely he get penalised for every shot he had played, wouldnt think it would affect his partner though, so depending on who parred the first two in their team would depend on what the score was after two.

 

[Stub]

Agreed - rules for matchplay say loss of two holes.

 

[Ian_S]

As I understand the score is technically 1-1 after two holes, so you'd deduct two holes from them, meaning you're up by two.

As a extra thought, if you'd won the first two holes and been 2-0 up, would they still have lost the two holes, meaning you'd be 4up after 2?

 

[bobmac]

I assume his partner only had 14 maximum ?

 

[Mark_G]

In this situation how does this get rectified, obviously one of the clubs should be removed but no one is going to leave a club out on the course, do you pass it to your opponents for safe keeping, and is it the guilty party that chooses which club to eliminate?

 

[swanny32]

Interested to see how you sorted this, hurry up and tell us.

 

[duncan mackie]

Surely he get penalised for every shot he had played, wouldnt think it would affect his partner though, so depending on who parred the first two in their team would depend on what the score was after two.

penalty for breach of rule 4 applied to the side see 30-3 d

the penalty is an adjustment to the score so, in this case, the match goes from all square to 2 up (if Robobum and partner were 2 up they would become 4 up)

 

[duncan mackie]

In this situation how does this get rectified, obviously one of the clubs should be removed but no one is going to leave a club out on the course, do you pass it to your opponents for safe keeping, and is it the guilty party that chooses which club to eliminate?

golf is a game of trust - the player selects the club and declares it out of play. If he subsequently uses it, even by mistake, it's DQ.

 

[pbrown7582]

Looks like I would of got it wrong I would of said loss of each hole played 3, but rule book would of been out to check!

 

[Robobum]

Yes, 2 holes deducted from them and that's what we concluded after a bit of debate and rule book consultation.

I don't think this is sufficient. In this instance the guy with 15 clubs parred the 3rd for a half - his tee shot to the green was played with him still breaking the rules.

Take this even further and, theoretically, you could play the majority of the round with too many clubs and still only get a 2hole penalty.

I don't see that as a sufficient penalty! Is it just me that sees it that way?

 

[fundy]

If I was given the choice on the first tee to carry 14 clubs and start all square, or carry 15 clubs and start 2 down, without doubt Id carry 14 and start all square - says to me the punishment of losing 2 holes is more than plenty

 

[Ian_S]

Yes, 2 holes deducted from them and that's what we concluded after a bit of debate and rule book consultation.

I don't think this is sufficient. In this instance the guy with 15 clubs parred the 3rd for a half - his tee shot to the green was played with him still breaking the rules.

Take this even further and, theoretically, you could play the majority of the round with too many clubs and still only get a 2hole penalty.

I don't see that as a sufficient penalty! Is it just me that sees it that way?

Seems sufficient to me. After all, if you had the choice would you choose to play with 15 clubs and start off down by 2 holes, or with 14 clubs all-square?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would choose to start two down.

 

[Ian_S]

If I was given the choice on the first tee to carry 14 clubs and start all square, or carry 15 clubs and start 2 down, without doubt Id carry 14 and start all square - says to me the punishment of losing 2 holes is more than plenty

Wow, we both approached the problem in the same way

 

[fundy]

great minds sir

 

[louise_a]

*goes to read rule book*

 

[bluewolf]

Ive got to say that I think that the penalty is fair enough. I don't know how much of an advantage a 15th club would give you, but I doubt that it would give you a 3 hole advantage.

 

[Region3]

With you saying the penalty wasn't harsh enough, I thought you were going to say the penalty was that players score didn't count on each of the first 2 holes but the other guy made the halves so no difference.

I think the loss of 2 holes far outweighs the (non) advantage he gained by having 15 clubs.

Did you win the match?

 

[USER1999]

Quite often I can shoot my handicap with only 5 clubs. I don't see the penalty as that unreasonable. Tough on his partner though, he won't forgive that for a while.