a handicap question

[patricks148]

with the new system is there a way to do an annual review or change a handicap?

we have two guys who come to our roll up who have not played a comp in years have no interest in playing in one or putting cards in. both were off 12, so still play off that. TBH i'd be suprised if either could play to double that.

any suggestions?

 

[rulefan]

Why do anything at all?

But if you feel you must then you need to use the WHS portal. But you can only adjust their handicaps by 5 strokes up or down. More than that, you need to contact the county.

 

[jim8flog]

with the new system is there a way to do an annual review or change a handicap?

we have two guys who come to our roll up who have not played a comp in years have no interest in playing in one or putting cards in. both were off 12, so still play off that. TBH i'd be suprised if either could play to double that.

any suggestions?

If you are talking official WHS handicap the first question has to be - 'do they have 20 scores on their record?' if not then the CONGU/WHS guideline is no.

https://www.dcgu.org.uk/uploads/dorsetcounty/File/WHS/CONGU to WHS Transition.pdf

 

[patricks148]

If you are talking official WHS handicap the first question has to be - 'do they have 20 scores on their record?' if not then the CONGU/WHS guideline is no.

https://www.dcgu.org.uk/uploads/dorsetcounty/File/WHS/CONGU to WHS Transition.pdf

i don't think they do, one hasn't played a single comp or put a score in for 6 years since he joined. neither have scored more than 20 points in any of the singles comp we have had

 

[IanM]

What? No official cards? No comps for 6 years? These people turn up to play for FUN??? Ban them immediately

Seriously, how do they appear on the WHS Portal? Is it 12 as a carry over?

At the risk of excommunication, its a roll up for a few quid, I'd give them a shot a hole, tell them to have fun! (it doesn't sound like they'll trouble the scorers off that either) What harm are they doing?

It's the "geezers" who pitch up at Opens and walk off with trips to Spain and £500 drivers we need to worry about.

 

[patricks148]

What? No official cards? No comps for 6 years? These people turn up to play for FUN??? Ban them immediately

Seriously, how do they appear on the WHS Portal? Is it 12 as a carry over?

At the risk of excommunication, its a roll up for a few quid, I'd give them a shot a hole, tell them to have fun! (it doesn't sound like they'll trouble the scorers off that either) What harm are they doing?

It's the "geezers" who pitch up at Opens and walk off with trips to Spain and £500 drivers we need to worry about.

who said they were doing any harm??

the consenus is to give them both 24, my question was if the club could just give them a higher handicap then they have

 

[IanM]

Sorry if not clear, I didn't think you were saying they were doing any harm. I was being facetious about anyone who thought it was necessary to be fully compliant with handicap regulations for two blokes just nipping up to their club to have a game of golf with their mates.

 

[rulefan]

the consenus is to give them both 24, my question was if the club could just give them a higher handicap then they have

I would suggest that you don't. Firstly, the CONGU/EG chart says not. Secondly the County would have to approve a raise of more than 5 and in addition the County would have to do it for you.
If the players are concerned, suggest they put in some General Play scores. It will soon sort it out particularly if there are no or very few in the WHS file (as IanM implied may be the case).

 

[Swango1980]

Agree with rulefan. If they are that concerned about their handicap being too low, and having no score history, then it shouldn't be too much effort to start handing in official scores. Once they have 3, an appropriate handicap index will be calculated, and then it'll become more refined and relevant as they start handing in even more scores.

Even if WHS were happy with a players handicap being manually increased to whatever you feel is appropriate, you shoot yourself in the foot if they go on to win a competition. There is bound to be one person in the field who will complain that their handicap is too high, and you'd need to take full responsibility for that. Maybe there is enough evidence in their known history to justify this, but you'd want to be rock solid.

 

[IanM]

I would suggest that you don't. Firstly, the CONGU/EG chart says not. Secondly the County would have to approve a raise of more than 5 and in addition the County would have to do it for you.
If the players are concerned, suggest they put in some General Play scores. It will soon sort it out particularly if there are no or very few in the WHS file (as IanM implied may be the case).

You may be confusing "official handicap" with "the number of shots you give old Bert when he turns up occasionally to play in the roll-up!" ?

 

[rulefan]

You may be confusing "official handicap" with "the number of shots you give old Bert when he turns up occasionally to play in the roll-up!" ?

Indeed. Providing the club hasn't determined that this groups 'roll-ups' are not Competitions then no problem.

 

[patricks148]

Agree with rulefan. If they are that concerned about their handicap being too low, and having no score history, then it shouldn't be too much effort to start handing in official scores. Once they have 3, an appropriate handicap index will be calculated, and then it'll become more refined and relevant as they start handing in even more scores.

Even if WHS were happy with a players handicap being manually increased to whatever you feel is appropriate, you shoot yourself in the foot if they go on to win a competition. There is bound to be one person in the field who will complain that their handicap is too high, and you'd need to take full responsibility for that. Maybe there is enough evidence in their known history to justify this, but you'd want to be rock solid.

thing is these guys have little or no interest in putting in cards, not that they can at the moment anyway as according to the club we moved to an "unrated" course on Monday and now wont be back onto the normal tee's now till April.

its not unusual i'd say we have had a few guys at the club who's game has dropped of a cliff and for some reason stop playing comps as they are not competative off their old handicap, yet won't put scores in as they don't want the embarrassment of putting score over 100.

we want them to enjoy our roll ups more, we do play a lot of team games over winter, it can't be fun not being able to contribute

 

[rulefan]

thing is these guys have little or no interest in putting in cards, not that they can at the moment anyway as according to the club we moved to an "unrated" course on Monday and now wont be back onto the normal tee's now till April.

its not unusual i'd say we have had a few guys at the club who's game has dropped of a cliff and for some reason stop playing comps as they are not competative off their old handicap, yet won't put scores in as they don't want the embarrassment of putting score over 100.

we want them to enjoy our roll ups more, we do play a lot of team games over winter, it can't be fun not being able to contribute

'Not contributing' implies that the roll-ups are some form of team event. In which case WHS handicaps are somewhat irrelevant. Let the organisers do what they want. However the two guys could be encouraged to use the opportunity to return their scores as General Play

 

[Swango1980]

thing is these guys have little or no interest in putting in cards, not that they can at the moment anyway as according to the club we moved to an "unrated" course on Monday and now wont be back onto the normal tee's now till April.

its not unusual i'd say we have had a few guys at the club who's game has dropped of a cliff and for some reason stop playing comps as they are not competative off their old handicap, yet won't put scores in as they don't want the embarrassment of putting score over 100.

we want them to enjoy our roll ups more, we do play a lot of team games over winter, it can't be fun not being able to contribute

I agree with the dilemma. If we are talking about "fun" comps over winter, then perhaps you can create some sort of unofficial handicapping system for those. We have done that, where we simply adjusted handicaps similar to the old CONGU method, but used 36 points as the par. This made sure those that never play comps, or buckle playing off whites, don't win roll ups every week with 40+ points.

But, if they have no interest in handing in cards generally, I don't think they should be expecting the club to adjust their handicaps outside the workings of the system.

 

[patricks148]

But, if they have no interest in handing in cards generally, I don't think they should be expecting the club to adjust their handicaps outside the workings of the system.

they don't expect anything, its been discussed umung the organisers if something could be done to help these two. everone else all play comps, in fact one guy played his first comps for years this year. i've known him 10 years and he was always moaning his handicap was too low, so i asked him how many comps he's played in the last few years?... none was his reply so told him to start either sticking score in or play in some comps. he did just that and got his handicap up to 18, then when the WHS came in he's been raised even further and is now off 22 according to the sheet on the course. he's loving the game now he's competative again... i wouldn't want to be giving him 17 shots thats for sure

 

[KenL]

I take these guys don't have a handicap at all if they haven't put in a card for years?

 

[rulefan]

I take these guys don't have a handicap at all if they haven't put in a card for years?

Why? You don't lose your handicap for inactivity in competitions. Only if you are no longer a member of an affiliated club.

 

[KenL]

Why? You don't lose your handicap for inactivity in competitions. Only if you are no longer a member of an affiliated club.

Really? We had a "c" for those who had a competitive hcp and couldn't enter matchplay comps without one. This was for people who hadn't entered 3 comps in the previous year.

 

[rulefan]

Really? We had a "c" for those who had a competitive hcp and couldn't enter matchplay comps without one. This was for people who hadn't entered 3 comps in the previous year.

Having a ' ' comp status doesn't didn't mean that you don't have a handicap. CONGU and England Golf strongly asserted this when it was introduced.
Any restriction on playing in any competitions was purely at the discretion of the club or organising committee. It was not a rule issued by CONGU or England Golf

Competition Handicap
A Competition Handicap is a CONGU® Handicap of a player who has returned at least three Qualifying Scores in the current or previous calendar year. Such a handicap is annotated with a ‘c’ symbol after the numeric value of the handicap. Clubs may use the possession of a ‘c’ status handicap as a qualification for entry to competitions.

A player’s handicap is lost immediately he ceases to be a Member of an Affiliated Club or loses his amateur status.

 

[jim8flog]

Really? We had a "c" for those who had a competitive hcp and couldn't enter matchplay comps without one. This was for people who hadn't entered 3 comps in the previous year.

Also
'C ' Status disappeared with the WHS.