90% versus 3/4

[Vikingman]

Played in quite a lot of pairs opens over the last couple of years and noticed the winning scores sneaking up since the handicap revision.

Yesterday, mainly due to my partner who played out of his skin, we scored 47 points and came 4th.

All the leading scores were mid (teens) handicappers.

I wondered whats the opinion of the lower handicappers on the board to these scores.

Do you still bother with these types of comp or stick to scratch events because it certainly looks like these comps favour the higher handicappers.

 

[chimpo1]

Played in quite a lot of pairs opens over the last couple of years and noticed the winning scores sneaking up since the handicap revision.

Yesterday, mainly due to my partner who played out of his skin, we scored 47 points and came 4th.

All the leading scores were mid (teens) handicappers.

I wondered whats the opinion of the lower handicappers on the board to these scores.

Do you still bother with these types of comp or stick to scratch events because it certainly looks like these comps favour the higher handicappers.

I posted about this a few weeks ago...i feel that 90% definitely favours the high handicap in match play. I typically give an extra 3 shots every weekend as opposed to the old 3/4. That's really difficult to be competitive with.

 

[Parsaregood]

Played in quite a lot of pairs opens over the last couple of years and noticed the winning scores sneaking up since the handicap revision.

Yesterday, mainly due to my partner who played out of his skin, we scored 47 points and came 4th.

All the leading scores were mid (teens) handicappers.

I wondered whats the opinion of the lower handicappers on the board to these scores.

Do you still bother with these types of comp or stick to scratch events because it certainly looks like these comps favour the higher handicappers.

Personally I no longer play in events where I have to give shots to another player ie handicap matchplay events etc should be 3/4 max in my opinion as generally lower handicap players practice more put more effort in to the game and in my opinion if somebody can't be bothered to get any better at the game why should they get so many shots? There are alot of bandits out there or I believe they're called golfers with corporate handicaps, an absolute joke in my opinion

 

[Imurg]

Personally I no longer play in events where I have to give shots to another player ie handicap matchplay events etc should be 3/4 max in my opinion as generally lower handicap players practice more put more effort in to the game and in my opinion if somebody can't be bothered to get any better at the game why should they get so many shots? There are alot of bandits out there or I believe they're called golfers with corporate handicaps, an absolute joke in my opinion

Ever thought that, just maybe, they can't get any better....?
Thought not......

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Over the last 12 months the biggest complaint I have received from people is the change to 90% from 3/4

We had a few events under the HC change throughout the year - they were won by mid and high HC with record scores - 48 points and 45 points

Then our winter league started beginning of Dec and all the group games are matchplay. Have had multiple complaints from many people all saying they won't be playing in it again due to the amount of shots having to be given on short course. Looking at the 8 league tables and you can see the groups doing well have the high HC in them - 4unbeaten groups HC are 22 and 19 , 23 and 24 , 16 and 19 , 12 and 28. There are lots of shots being given and people don't seem to be happy. I didn't enter this year because I could see it happening

There was no statistically evidence for the increase -Congu didn't ask clubs who was winning the KO or 4BBB events so I still fail to see why they made the change. We used to have a good spread of people who won the events - I see it only being won by the higher HC now

 

[Crow]

I think that 90% is reasonable in BB matchplay when playing the full course but, as pointed out in Phil's post, when playing winter comps on a shortened course it will favour the higher handicap. For this reason our Winter League is still run on 3/4 handicap seems to be which working well.
(And yes, I have had it pointed out to me that CONGU want all BB matchplay comps to be 90%)

As for BB stableford or medal being 90%, I haven't given it too much thought if I'm being honest as I only enter such comps for the enjoyment of playing.

That said, I can see why some may get frustrated when the golfers who turn up once a week for their friendly knock and don't put any effort into improving, have just as much chance (if not more with a tiny bit of effort) of taking away the spoils in a prestige club competition.

 

[clubchamp98]

Played in quite a lot of pairs opens over the last couple of years and noticed the winning scores sneaking up since the handicap revision.

Yesterday, mainly due to my partner who played out of his skin, we scored 47 points and came 4th.

All the leading scores were mid (teens) handicappers.

I wondered whats the opinion of the lower handicappers on the board to these scores.

Do you still bother with these types of comp or stick to scratch events because it certainly looks like these comps favour the higher handicappers.

Yes I play a lot of these comps but we tend to treat it as a day out now .
if we get a prize it's a bonus.
It does seem that the middle clappers benefit from this change .
some of the scores that win are laughable but what can you do the powers that be don't reward the ones who work hardest at their game.
As most changes in recent years see me giveing more shots away.
I have not entered a singles knock out since they made it full h/cap.

The one that I hear the most is "My partner played out of his skin" when they put their card in for 50 points.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Personally I no longer play in events where I have to give shots to another player ie handicap matchplay events etc should be 3/4 max in my opinion as generally lower handicap players practice more put more effort in to the game and in my opinion if somebody can't be bothered to get any better at the game why should they get so many shots? There are alot of bandits out there or I believe they're called golfers with corporate handicaps, an absolute joke in my opinion

Snobbery at it's best, to suggest that those with higher handicaps can't be bothered to get any better is rude and ignorant.

I agree there are some people manipulating handicaps but please don't tar all with the same brush.

Funny how you never hear anyone of 5 or below complain they get full allowance when its 90%, were as at 3/4's they at a minimum at least lost a shot.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ever thought that, just maybe, they can't get any better....?
Thought not......

If they can't get any better how can they shoot scores in the high forties and fiftys.

 

[clubchamp98]

Over the last 12 months the biggest complaint I have received from people is the change to 90% from 3/4

We had a few events under the HC change throughout the year - they were won by mid and high HC with record scores - 48 points and 45 points

Then our winter league started beginning of Dec and all the group games are matchplay. Have had multiple complaints from many people all saying they won't be playing in it again due to the amount of shots having to be given on short course. Looking at the 8 league tables and you can see the groups doing well have the high HC in them - 4unbeaten groups HC are 22 and 19 , 23 and 24 , 16 and 19 , 12 and 28. There are lots of shots being given and people don't seem to be happy. I didn't enter this year because I could see it happening

There was no statistically evidence for the increase -Congu didn't ask clubs who was winning the KO or 4BBB events so I still fail to see why they made the change. We used to have a good spread of people who won the events - I see it only being won by the higher HC now

We were told it was only a recommendation but my club acted on it straight away.
I honestly believe this is because most committee members are middle h/cap.
is this the case or is it mandatory.

 

[Imurg]

If they can't get any better how can they shoot scores in the high forties and fiftys.

Ever had a good day?
Is it the same high handicappers that win every time..?

 

[Region3]

I still play in them because we only enter to play nice courses on the cheap.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Played in quite a lot of pairs opens over the last couple of years and noticed the winning scores sneaking up since the handicap revision.

Yesterday, mainly due to my partner who played out of his skin, we scored 47 points and came 4th.

All the leading scores were mid (teens) handicappers.

I wondered whats the opinion of the lower handicappers on the board to these scores.

Do you still bother with these types of comp or stick to scratch events because it certainly looks like these comps favour the higher handicappers.

Personally I only play this type of golf as a cheap way of playing a different course and don't even bother looking at the scores as its a waste of time from my point of view.

Prefer to play medal golf any day of the week anyway.

 

[Parsaregood]

Snobbery at it's best, to suggest that those with higher handicaps can't be bothered to get any better is rude and ignorant.

I agree there are some people manipulating handicaps but please don't tar all with the same brush.
Funny how you never hear anyone of 5 or below complain they get full allowance when its 90%, were as at 3/4's they at a minimum at least lost a shot.

Im not tarring all with the same brush however I do believe that unfortunately this is a problem in some of these handicap competitions. The 90% favours the higher player more as alot of high handicap players usually can string stretches of half decent golf together but may just have a 2 or 3 bad holes but if your giving them 15 shots or whatever youre severely up against it.
As I said though I don't play handicap events as it simply doesn't interest me, I don't get the same buzz I get from playing scratch events. There's no reason why anybody can't play to at least 18, so I think a handicap higher than 18 should be a social only handicap as 1 stroke a hole is plenty in my view.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Im not tarring all with the same brush however I do believe that unfortunately this is a problem in some of these handicap competitions. The 90% favours the higher player more as alot of high handicap players usually can string stretches of half decent golf together but may just have a 2 or 3 bad holes but if your giving them 15 shots or whatever youre severely up against it.
As I said though I don't play handicap events as it simply doesn't interest me, I don't get the same buzz I get from playing scratch events. There's no reason why anybody can't play to at least 18, so I think a handicap higher than 18 should be a social only handicap as 1 stroke a hole is plenty in my view.

Even the 1 shot per hole is arrogant, some people love the game but will never reach that level, that won't be through lack of effort, just not suited to the game.

Below is a link done by Scottish Golf about some of Golf Myths, makes very interesting reading, especially the 3/4 v full difference stats.

https://www.scottishgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/Myths-and-Misconceptions1.pdf

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Can you define "high handicapper", and why that automatically means "bandit?"
I know of quite a few cat 2's who somehow always seem to fall apart at the end of a round to keep them at the upper end of the category, and strangley enough were the usual suspects winning when it mattered.

 

[Parsaregood]

There was a 75 y/o guy at my vlub who could hardly walk had to use a buggy and he still played off 16 or 17 so honestly I find it hard to believe 18 is outwith 99.5% of people's grasp

 

[Parsaregood]

High handicapper does not always equate to bandit however I would define a high player as anyone over 13

 

[Bunkermagnet]

There was a 75 y/o guy at my vlub who could hardly walk had to use a buggy and he still played off 16 or 17 so honestly I find it hard to believe 18 is outwith 99.5% of people's grasp

I didn't know being able to walk was a prerequesit for being able to play the game....

 

[Bunkermagnet]

High handicapper does not always equate to bandit however I would define a high player as anyone over 13

Really? Have you heard yourself....