4BBB Open Competition

[3offTheTee]

There was a 4BBB Invitation at our place last week.

One of the competitors did NOT turn up. The guy who was invited played with both players from the home Club after being agreed by the Pro Shop. The person authorising was not the pro but somebody that works in the shop, collecting the money, handing out the cards and was not the Official Starter.

I realise that one person cannot represent more than 1 team.

One of the 'Group' won the Competition and the other 'Group' came 4th.

The results have been posted on The Results Board.

What should happen please?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If I understand correctly, there was one pair and one single? If so, nothing at all wrong with that unless there is something specific in the competition rules. A single player can play in a 4BBB but is obviously at a disadvantage as their score will have to count on every hole.

 

[3offTheTee]

If I understand correctly, there was one pair and one single? If so, nothing at all wrong with that unless there is something specific in the competition rules. A single player can play in a 4BBB but is obviously at a disadvantage as their score will have to count on every hole.

No The visitor played with both our members. Whist I cannot remember the sores our member A and visitor A had 44 points and won the Comp and our member B and visitor A, some person had 42 points and came 4th. The visitor A would therefore collect 2 prizes!

 

[upsidedown]

No The visitor played with both our members. Whist I cannot remember the sores our member A and visitor A had 44 points and won the Comp and our member B and visitor A, some person had 42 points and came 4th. The visitor A would therefore collect 2 prizes!

When they use that format in our pro shop comps you can only win one prize.

 

[Colin L]

What should happen please?

To answer that, we would have to know whether the Conditions of Competition allowed such an arrangement or not.

 

[duncan mackie]

No The visitor played with both our members. Whist I cannot remember the sores our member A and visitor A had 44 points and won the Comp and our member B and visitor A, some person had 42 points and came 4th. The visitor A would therefore collect 2 prizes!

The simple answer is that it probably shouldn't have happened - but it did, obviously in an effort to get another home player a game, and have at least a 3 ball amongst the field of 4s rather than a 2.

Both home guys will feel they should get their 1 and 4 prizes, whether you -
1. Give the visitor both prizes (correct response to a situation you've created - passively)
2. Have a quiet word with him and say you will present them because of the partner prizes but he can only win the first place prize (poor response)
3. Everyone gets uppity about the whole thing and nobody is happy with any outcome (usual situation)

 

[3offTheTee]

To answer that, we would have to know whether the Conditions of Competition allowed such an arrangement or not.

The conditions of the Competition did not allow such an arrangement and the guy who missed out on a prize has contacted The R and A who advised that one person cannot represent more than 1 team in a 4BBB competition

 

[3offTheTee]

The simple answer is that it probably shouldn't have happened - but it did, obviously in an effort to get another home player a game, and have at least a 3 ball amongst the field of 4s rather than a 2.

Both home guys will feel they should get their 1 and 4 prizes, whether you -
1. Give the visitor both prizes (correct response to a situation you've created - passively)
2. Have a quiet word with him and say you will present them because of the partner prizes but he can only win the first place prize (poor response)
3. Everyone gets uppity about the whole thing and nobody is happy with any outcome (usual situation)

Very practical as always Duncan.

My main query was once the results have been published do the results count?

Additionally the visitor was the partner originally of the Pair that came 4th.

This is a no win situation for The Club but appreciate your advice and comments.

 

[Crazyface]

Very practical as always Duncan.

My main query was once the results have been published do the results count?

Additionally the visitor was the partner originally of the Pair that came 4th.

This is a no win situation for The Club but appreciate your advice and comments.

I think you've actually answered the question. He was originally supposed to pair up with the member with whom he came fourth, so he (and they) came fourth. The other card is marked as a singleton.

 

[duncan mackie]

Very practical as always Duncan.

My main query was once the results have been published do the results count?

Additionally the visitor was the partner originally of the Pair that came 4th.

This is a no win situation for The Club but appreciate your advice and comments.

The issue of the original basis of the players pairing is not easy but, let me ask this, if the other guy had turned up and the pairs had asked and been agreed that they could swap partners would their results have stood? I think your answer would be yes, and by that logic any original pairings are irrelevant once further discussion take place in the pro shop.

Then we now have the suggestion that he did play as originally suggested, and the other home player returned a singles card (which when combined with the visitors score was a winning one)- the answer to this lies in what was agreed before they set out.

Finally, the issue of decisions and results/comp closed. In simple terms a decision made by the committee is final once they publish the results. What this means is that only they can decide to correct an error; even when the error is agreed as an error. Over the years on forums I've been involved in a number of cases where the committee have made the wrong decision, and the Member has referred it to the R&A who have confirmed that the committee have made the wrong decision but, as the competition was closed the result stands. Administration errors are considered differently and shouldn't be confused with rulings.

In this case I believe the committee can agree they made a mistake but choose to do nothing about it. The alternatives would include DQ for both pairs (those that came 1st and 4th) on the basis that one player can't be in 2 teams; this seems inherently wrong as the committee created this problem (even if passively). The other obvious one would be to settle an additional prize of equivalent value for the visitors (not team) who would have come 4th although the ruling opens the door to those who came 2nd etc! This option was probably best played at the time along with a statement that "the committee accepts that it may have made an incorrect ruling but has decided to stick with it in what it considers the wider fairness given it created the problem" - but it's easy to look back from an older and wiser perspective.