400 Yard par 5s for Ladies

[wolrab79]

Am I the only person who thinks that a 400 yard par 5 is demeaning for good lady golfers, my daughter plays national level golf and hits 260-280 yards off the tee leaving a flick with a wedge. This is a problem for the development of ladies game. She regularly plays off the back tees at her two clubs which are still shorter than a national level setup. All the national comps are changed to represent this i.e between 470-550 yard par 5s.

 

[bobmac]

The par of any hole doesn't matter, just play it the best you/she can

 

[fundy]

Do you think it would be better that all par 5s were 500 yards+ for women and then the vast majority of club golfers couldnt reach them in 3 or even 4 for a lot of them. Rather have them demoralised than you think good golfers are being demeaned?

What length are the 2 courses she plays off the back tees and what is the national level set up length?

 

[Backache]

My general impression is that there are a lot of really top golfers have their home courses that are fairly modest set ups. Par is just a number not sure why it is demeaning to anyone.

 

[chellie]

Does she birdie or eagle the holes each time if they are only 400 yards?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It surely comes down to ladies having a one tee fits all set up. It can't work for better golfers, unless to the massive detriment to those at the other end of the spectrum.

We have talked on here before about gender neutral tees and that is what we need to move to. Some clubs have but they are still massively in the minority.

Question for the OP, in competitions at her home club, could your daughter play off white tees instead of red?

 

[Foxholer]

Am I the only person who thinks that a 400 yard par 5 is demeaning for good lady golfers, my daughter plays national level golf and hits 260-280 yards off the tee leaving a flick with a wedge. This is a problem for the development of ladies game. She regularly plays off the back tees at her two clubs which are still shorter than a national level setup. All the national comps are changed to represent this i.e between 470-550 yard par 5s.

She and her equivalents/competitors should be aiming to Eagle it then. Par is only a number, not a requirement. And the hole might not be a simple straight one either - perhaps forcing 3 shots for the vast majority.

DeChambeau demonstrated recently (at The Arnold Palmer) how a long dogleg hole could be attacked.

Btw. Good luck to your daughter. Make sure she keeps enjoying golf!

 

[IanM]

The OP is a bit like saying a 500 yard par 4 is demeaning for men as this bloke who hits it 380 off the tee only needs a gap wedge in.

Thats the difference between good and less good golfers.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Courses can have every tee measured out for the WHS, which means, regardless of gender or ability, you can compete off a tee that suits your level.

Incidentally, my 12 year old was playing off the yellows yesterday, and he was saying how unfair it was that the 40 odd year old woman he was playing with had so much advantage off the front tee's.
It's not just the distance gained sometimes, but it's that hazards that are removed compared to playing off the tees further back.

 

[louise_a]

Is it any different to an elite male amateur who drives close to 350yds and then just has a wedge to a 500 yds par 5.

I am a decent amateur, (index 8.6) I drive 180 ish I hit my 3 wood 160 so I am still a wedge away on a 400 yard hole

 

[Slab]

If someone plays golf for their country I’d expect there to be holes they can overpower like the par 5’s they can reach in two, that are otherwise beyond many golfers, or short par 4’s where they can go for the green when its not an option for lots of people

Coming up against the odd short par 5 doesn't seem demeaning (the same would need to be said of all short par 4's and par 3's that just need a short iron/wedge)

Good luck to them


At least its not measured in meters, then its just a piddly little 365 to the hole !

 

[doublebogey7]

Courses can have every tee measured out for the WHS, which means, regardless of gender or ability, you can compete off a tee that suits your level.

Incidentally, my 12 year old was playing off the yellows yesterday, and he was saying how unfair it was that the 40 odd year old woman he was playing with had so much advantage off the front tee's.
It's not just the distance gained sometimes, but it's that hazards that are removed compared to playing off the tees further back.

I assume you countered that the problems he identified are taken into account when assessing handicaps (slope & CR).

 

[Mel Smooth]

I assume you countered that the problems he identified are taken into account when assessing handicaps (slope & CR).

Of course, in fairness, whe was a good golfer, hit it very straight and decent distance - could easily have played off the yellows albeit with a higher handicap.

 

[srixon 1]

I played an away course yesterday, Dudsbury. Their stroke 1 hole is 460 yards from the tees we used. After munching my driver I still had to hit my 19* rescue to get there in two as I still had 200 yards to go. Talking to one of my teammates afterwards and he hit 7 iron to the green. He is long off the tee. Have played there loads and nobody moans that that particular hole is too long for a par 4, just that it is hard.

 

[jim8flog]

As said par is irrelevant in a handicap/nett comp. The winner is the player going round in the least number of shots.

My belief anyway is that par should be set to sort most golfers not just the better ones.

Telling us the length is not the whole story. Difficulty of the hole is also part of of the equation a Women's par 5 can be as short as 370 yards

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h...Content/rules/Appendix F Establishing Par.htm

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Am I the only person who thinks that a 400 yard par 5 is demeaning for good lady golfers, my daughter plays national level golf and hits 260-280 yards off the tee leaving a flick with a wedge. This is a problem for the development of ladies game. She regularly plays off the back tees at her two clubs which are still shorter than a national level setup. All the national comps are changed to represent this i.e between 470-550 yard par 5s.

Your daughter is clearly playing off the wrong tees then.

 

[3offTheTee]

Ask Kaz when she next comes on here. expect she will know better than most.

 

[AmandaJR]

260-280 off the tee is way above average. So 400 yards for the majority is still 3 shots to the green. Not demeaning at all and actually feels like a hint of arrogance to think it is.

My index is 6.9 and on a good day with a bit of run I'd make it in two - I'd be happy to have an eagle chance and not feel offended at all

 

[Billysboots]

We have a par 5 which is 480 off the whites, and very reachable in two for me if I get a decent drive away. Do I find it demeaning because it’s shorter than the majority of par 5’s? No, of course not. I find the OP rather curious, if I’m honest.

 

[timd77]

I’ve read the OPs post as being concerned that the short par 5 isn’t challenging her daughter enough, nothing arrogant or strange about that if you ask me. If she gets too use to hitting a wedge as her second shot, she’ll maybe struggle to adapt on a longer course where she might be having to hit a long iron or a 3 wood.

I thought we’d moved away from ladies tees/men’s tees now? Surely she can play off the yellows or whites when she wants to?

Good luck to her anyway, hope she does well ??