4-Ball Better Ball Matchplay illness scenario

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phils226

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Players A&B are Playing C&D when at the eighth hole Player A states that his is feeling ill and leaves the match. However he returns on the 13th with his team two down. Players C&D are unsure but allow him to rejoin. He confirms he sat in his car resting for the whole of the time he was away. Players A&B then won the match.

I understand that as Players C&D allowed Player A to rejoin without requesting a ruling that the result stands. However if they had, what would the outcome be as I am struggling to find a decision / interpretation on this
 
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Not double checked this, but pretty sure that what they did was within the rules. There is nothing in the rules that suggests both players in a better ball team have to cbe present at all times. Indeed there is specific reference to a player arriving late and joining play during the round, I see this as no different.
 

TheJezster

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I would be very surprised if there's a problem with this! Guy wasn't feeling well, so sat out a few holes.
Any complaint from the losing team would be sour grapes to me...
 

jim8flog

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There is this to consider. Whether or not it would apply to one player in a pairs match I would not know. Particularly as it is reference to undue delay.

5.6a/2 – Player Who Gets Sudden Illness or Injury Is Normally Allowed 15 Minutes to Recover

If a player gets a sudden illness or injury (such as from heat exhaustion, a bee sting struck by a golf ball), the Committee should normally allow that player up to 15 minutes to recover before the player’s failure to continue play would be unreasonably delaying play.

The Committee should also normally apply this same time limit to the total time a player uses when e or she receives repeated treatments during a round to alleviate an injury.
 

Foxholer

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There is this to consider. Whether or not it would apply to one player in a pairs match I would not know. Particularly as it is reference to undue delay.

5.6a/2 – Player Who Gets Sudden Illness or Injury Is Normally Allowed 15 Minutes to Recover

If a player gets a sudden illness or injury (such as from heat exhaustion, a bee sting struck by a golf ball), the Committee should normally allow that player up to 15 minutes to recover before the player’s failure to continue play would be unreasonably delaying play.

The Committee should also normally apply this same time limit to the total time a player uses when e or she receives repeated treatments during a round to alleviate an injury.
I don't believe that's relevant to the re-joining, though could well be to when everyone was made aware of the 'illness'.
 
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I don't believe that's relevant to the re-joining, though could well be to when everyone was made aware of the 'illness'.
Indeed 5.6a/2 would seem to be directed at a player feeling ill and needing to pause without getting tripped up by Rule 6-7 - The Player must Play without Undue Delay and in accordance with any pace of play guidelines...
 
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It was all ok.

Have a look at Rule 23 which deals with 4ball games - and specifically 23.4 "One or both partners may represent the side" and goes on to say that the side may be represented by just one partner for all, or any part of the match. If both partners are present, it isn't necessary for both to play any particular hole. The only real prohibition is that an "absent" partner can't join in the play of a hole once play of that hole has started.
 

Swango1980

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It was all ok.

Have a look at Rule 23 which deals with 4ball games - and specifically 23.4 "One or both partners may represent the side" and goes on to say that the side may be represented by just one partner for all, or any part of the match. If both partners are present, it isn't necessary for both to play any particular hole. The only real prohibition is that an "absent" partner can't join in the play of a hole once play of that hole has started.
Yeah, no issue

What if the "ill" player actually left because he had a half hour lesson with the pro. Then he returned with a McIlroy like swing (although, I know lessons usually result in the opposite immediately after) :)
 

mikejohnchapman

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There is a test of reasonablness here. If he / she needed time to recover from illness then I think rejoining when able is a reasonable thing to do without any sanction. If it's to nip off to have a lesson or take a call (unless they were a doctor etc.) then I don't think it's reasonable to allow them to rejoin the match.
 

Swango1980

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I'd imagine if a player went missing for a few holes in the middle of the round, and had a lesson, they'd be in breach of both Practising between holes rules, and Getting Advice Rules.

If they were ill, then as per your last post (and already mentioned in post 8), then the player can return later in round to finish match
 

Swango1980

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Very good 👍
Practicing putting on the practice green would be OK, but not having a putting lesson it appears.
Only on the putting green last played, but probably not the practice putting green (unless nearby). Rule 5.5b Exception allows practice chipping or putting on or near the putting green of the hole last played or the next tee area. So, not the practice putting green all the way back at the clubhouse.

Which would be interesting if the player was genuinely ill. Recovered. Then, before returning, decided to have a 5 minute putt on the practice green until, perhaps, he could see his match at a suitable point on the course to rejoin.
 

Swango1980

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Fair point. I assumed it would be OK if the practice green was nearby, but the wording certainly suggests that, in this specific situation where player has skipped holes, they can practice on the practice green as much as they like (but not go to the driving range). So, it would just be the lesson side, where they probably can't be given any advice
 
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phils226

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Yeah, no issue

What if the "ill" player actually left because he had a half hour lesson with the pro. Then he returned with a McIlroy like swing (although, I know lessons usually result in the opposite immediately after) :)
Or similarly went to the Putting Green, spent an hour practicing and returned with the putting stroke of Jordon Speith (of old)? Could he do that?
 
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You need to bear in mind that (except during the actual play of a hole) the restriction on practice is only against "practiice on the course". So, anywhere off the course is fine. If the putting green is not on the course, then so be it.
 

Swango1980

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You need to bear in mind that (except during the actual play of a hole) the restriction on practice is only against "practiice on the course". So, anywhere off the course is fine. If the putting green is not on the course, then so be it.
Rule 5.5b states "Between two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke".

It doesn't mention practice on the course, just a practice stroke generally. The only exception is what has been discussed previously regarding chipping and putting.

Rule 5.5c does allow a practice stroke outside the course when Play is suspended or otherwise stopped. Although, technically play has not stopped, as the other 3 players are still playing. So, not sure it can be said the sick player has stopped, and then play for him has stopped. Does Play refer to the match, or Play refer to each individual player?
 
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Rule 5.5b states "Between two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke".

It doesn't mention practice on the course, just a practice stroke generally. The only exception is what has been discussed previously regarding chipping and putting.

Rule 5.5c does allow a practice stroke outside the course when Play is suspended or otherwise stopped. Although, technically play has not stopped, as the other 3 players are still playing. So, not sure it can be said the sick player has stopped, and then play for him has stopped. Does Play refer to the match, or Play refer to each individual player?
My bad. I was looking at rule 5.2 which is not quite the same thing. But the practice green is still ok. Good question as to whether the sick player has "otherwise stopped play" . Its allowable under rule 5.7a. And one of the allowable reasons is by agreement in matchplay. I guess its arguable that the sick player had stopped by agreement ??
 

Swango1980

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My bad. I was looking at rule 5.2 which is not quite the same thing. But the practice green is still ok. Good question as to whether the sick player has "otherwise stopped play" . Its allowable under rule 5.7a. And one of the allowable reasons is by agreement in matchplay. I guess its arguable that the sick player had stopped by agreement ??
Actually, Rule 5.7a infers that Play is related to the match (as I'd expect ultimately), not the individual player. "Stopping Play by Agreement in Match Play" suggests that it is all players in that match agreeing to stop, not just one player. So, the match has been stopped. Because, the second sentence says that if one player wants to resume play, the agreement has ended.
 
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