2 players in bunker- raking?

[North Mimms]

Two FC go into same bunker which is nicely raked before they went in it.
A's ball is lying 3 inches in front of B's ball.
B suggests that A marks their ball.

A walks into bunker, marks ball, walks out raking their footprints, leaving bunker in same condition as before
B wallks into bunker, hits their own ball out, walks out of bunker, raking their footprints.
A walks in, replaces their ball by marker, hits out.

Has A done anything wrong, "tested the bunker?" as they were only raking bunker for B's benefit?
Has B done anything wrong?

Should they have got player C to do all the raking?
Or should B have marked A's ball?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Notwithstanding any rationale - the fact that A has raked the bunker prior to him playing cannot be deemed to be anything other than 'testing'. B could have left A's ball where it lay and if he disturbed it when playing then B would tidy bunker and place A's ball back to where it was. Either that or B marks A's ball then replaces it after tidying bunker. Or they get C to mark and pick A's ball.

There may of course be a decision that allows A to do what he did - but as so many alternatives to what A did I can't why he'd have a decision in his favour.

 

[Slab]

Yes 'A' is still in the bunker and not raked footprints

On serious note, would 'A's raking not fall under care for the course and mean he hasn't done anything wrong?


edit: found it (if it applies)
Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 is amended to permit a player to smooth sand or soil in a hazard at any time, including before playing from that hazard, provided it is for the sole purpose of caring for the course and Rule 13-2 is not breached.

Cant see why it wouldn't apply to the situation as described

 

[pbrown7582]

I see nothing wrong in the OP scenario.

 

[North Mimms]

you're right Slab.
Poor old A is most probably still standing in that bunker while others rake around them!

 

[Region3]

The only reason one player has to go into the bunker before it's their turn to play is to mark the position of their ball, I can't see any reason why they can't stay well enough out of the way of the ball with their feet for the bunker to not need raking before the other plays their shot.

Also, in that situation I would suggest the closer ball is played first as there's less chance of disruption to the lie of the other ball.

 

[North Mimms]

The only reason one player has to go into the bunker before it's their turn to play is to mark the position of their ball, I can't see any reason why they can't stay well enough out of the way of the ball with their feet for the bunker to not need raking before the other plays their shot.

Also, in that situation I would suggest the closer ball is played first as there's less chance of disruption to the lie of the other ball.

The bunker was nicely raked before either went in, the sand was nicely fluffed up which meant that merely walking in left deep prints.
I wouldn't be worried about A's first set of prints interfering with B's shot, more that if B failed to get out of bunker (both were well forward in a bunker that I have personally "stayed in" a couple of times) their ball could recoil and land in A's deep print.

Since I like to hit at least an inch behind a ball on sand, I would fit it hard to play a bunker shot with another ball sitting a few inches behind mine.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes 'A' is still in the bunker and not raked footprints

On serious note, would 'A's raking not fall under care for the course and mean he hasn't done anything wrong?


edit: found it (if it applies)
Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 is amended to permit a player to smooth sand or soil in a hazard at any time, including before playing from that hazard, provided it is for the sole purpose of caring for the course and Rule 13-2 is not breached.

Cant see why it wouldn't apply to the situation as described

Yup - 13-4. Find that change a little odd but there you go. Though tidying bunker sand precisely where my ball will be replaced without 'testing' it hmmm.

 

[Region3]

I wouldn't be worried about A's first set of prints interfering with B's shot, more that if B failed to get out of bunker (both were well forward in a bunker that I have personally "stayed in" a couple of times) their ball could recoil and land in A's deep print.

Very good point, I hadn't thought about that.

Since I like to hit at least an inch behind a ball on sand, I would fit it hard to play a bunker shot with another ball sitting a few inches behind mine.

I didn't mean to leave the ball in place. I'd still like it marked but in my case at least, I've more chance of destroying the lie of a ball in front of mine than behind it. That's just my preference, I'm sure your way is the correct way to do it.

 

[Colin L]

Player B is entitled to the lie and stance he had when his ball came to rest in the bunker which means the hoof prints made by A in marking his ball can be raked and there is no reason why he should not extend B the courtesy of doing the raking. His purpose is not testing the bunker but restoring B's stance. Similarly A is entitled to his lie and stance and so B's hoof prints can be raked before he plays. Additionally, if B's stroke altered A's lie, A is entitled to restore it. B does nothing wrong by returning the courtesy and doing the raking. ( In any case, his ball is by now out of the bunker and there is no restriction on his raking.)

In short, it looks to me that the players managed the situation well and with courtesy to each other.

 

[North Mimms]

Player B is entitled to the lie and stance he had when his ball came to rest in the bunker which means the hoof prints made by A in marking his ball can be raked and there is no reason why he should not extend B the courtesy of doing the raking. His purpose is not testing the bunker but restoring B's stance. Similarly A is entitled to his lie and stance and so B's hoof prints can be raked before he plays. Additionally, if B's stroke altered A's lie, A is entitled to restore it. B does nothing wrong by returning the courtesy and doing the raking. ( In any case, his ball is by now out of the bunker and there is no restriction on his raking.)

In short, it looks to me that the players managed the situation well and with courtesy to each other.

Thank you Colin and others.
B managed to get their ball out quite cleanly without disturbing A's marker so didn't fiddle about there, just did the hoofprints. Ditto A just tidied their orignal prints ( a stance away from ball) and avoided area around their own ball