15 inch golf hole.... Telegraph hits it OOB

[vkurup]

Interesting take by the Telegraph on the 15 inch hole proposed to speed up golf. While this can be useful for beginners, I must say, I am not a bit fan of these to be used on main/championship courses. Last year when I was playing in the US, my friend took me to his local Par 3 course. Each green had 2 holes. One a regulation 4.5 and the other a slightly bigger hole with a different colour flag. The logic was that regulars could use regular holes, while Juniors or beginners could use the bigger hole. I thought it was good idea to keep it separate.

Telegraph article here.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...e-size-of-pizzas-should-be-out-of-bounds.html

Some interesting comments at the bottom of the article too..

 

[didsbury_duffer]

The whole thing is a non-starter in my opinion. As for Juniors, does tennis give them a double-sized racket..no. Does football give them a double-sized goal..no. They need to learn the proper game, on a proper course to the proper rules. Sorry if I seem to be a dinosaur to some.

 

[Astraeus]

I agree with the above poster. It takes a significant challenge out of the sport and makes it markedly less skillful. I don't actually see the appeal of an 'easier' game of golf as much as the appeal of challenging myself. I may have just missed out on being a part of the "I want it now" generation which cannot abide playing golf for three hours plus.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

The whole thing is a non-starter in my opinion. As for Juniors, does tennis give them a double-sized racket..no. Does football give them a double-sized goal..no. They need to learn the proper game, on a proper course to the proper rules. Sorry if I seem to be a dinosaur to some.

Actually, both sports do that. Tennis has short tennis, football has mini-soccer (and cricket has Kwik cricket, rugby has tag rugby, etc, etc). There's no reason at all why golf shouldn't have something similar, I would be completely in favour of this for beginners and especially the younger juniors. BUT the experiment is going to need its own courses, surely? And that's going to be prohibitively expensive, I would guess. As vkurup says, if you set a course up with great big 15 inch holes it's going to be very useful for people starting out, but once you do I can't see any more experienced golfers wanting to be a member at that course.

 

[RobRob]

If people started playing with bucket sized holes they would get disillusioned as to their own skill level, first time they went to a regulation cup they would be in turmoil!

 

[Foxholer]

The whole thing is a non-starter in my opinion. As for Juniors, does tennis give them a double-sized racket..no. Does football give them a double-sized goal..no. They need to learn the proper game, on a proper course to the proper rules. Sorry if I seem to be a dinosaur to some.

Very bad examples if you want to push the idea of playing on full sized. Both Tennis and Football do have smaller versions for Juniors - and rightly so imo. Juniors don't need to know the rules - immediately. They need to know the purpose and to have fun! Short Tennis does both. Smaller fields (and goals) does the same for football!

 

[CMAC]

The whole thing is a non-starter in my opinion. As for Juniors, does tennis give them a double-sized racket..no. Does football give them a double-sized goal..no. They need to learn the proper game, on a proper course to the proper rules. Sorry if I seem to be a dinosaur to some.

Tennis gives them larger softer and lighter balls with smaller courts. Football gives smaller pitches, lighter balls and smaller goals, under 8's have no goalies allowed to encourage passing and control

 

[MadAdey]

Thing with this is at what point do you move to proper sized holes?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

For a while in the 1980's we had 7" holes when we used our temporary greens.
The golfers quite liked them.

 

[Hacker Khan]

If people started playing with bucket sized holes they would get disillusioned as to their own skill level, first time they went to a regulation cup they would be in turmoil!

No they would not, they still need to get the ball to them plus I do not think people are so stupid to think that just because they can hole a put from 20 feet into a bucket sized hole they can do the same to a standard hole every time.

But what it may do is stop people giving up the game when they try it out as it is so hard. As others have mentioned just about every other sport has a cut down simplified easier version of the game that young children play to get them into it and to get their interest piqued.

Apart from golf as it is obviously a proper sport and if children or anyone new to the game wants to play it and get good at it they need to find out straight away that it is a very difficult, very time consuming and very expensive game. After all that is what we had to do and if it's good enough for us, kids today, bring back conscription blah blah blah. And if they don't like it then can bugger off and try something else. After all, what can possibly go wrong with regards to the long term future of the game and number of participants with those attitudes.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Thing with this is at what point do you move to proper sized holes?

When the person feels confident enough and wants more of a challenge?

 

[StrangelyBrown]

If you have two different sized holes wouldn't you need two separate handicap systems?

 

[cookelad]

Any idea when they're going to introduce bowling style buffers along the sides of fairways?

If it comes over here it'll only be on courses designed more for beginners, things like this might actually cause folk to regulate themselves to which level of courses they play, so having less fledgling golfers on courses that are too difficult and therefore soul destroying for them at that stage in their golfing career. Problem, I foresee, being that new golfers wouldn't get to play with established golfers very often which could slow their improvement and also knowledge of the rules (of course being an established golfer doesn't make you a rules expert!)

 

[Slab]

If you have two different sized holes wouldn't you need two separate handicap systems?

Not unless they were going to compete against each other

 

[MadAdey]

I think some people have missed the point of the smaller football pitches and smaller goals. They are to encourage a greater level of technical ability, forcing them to pass and move more, rather than kick and run. Is making the hole bigger really going to be good for the game? So once players are knocking it round in under 80 all the time then try a real golf course and struggle to break 90, are they not going to say sod it and go back to the big holes?

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think some people have missed the point of the smaller football pitches and smaller goals. They are to encourage a greater level of technical ability, forcing them to pass and move more, rather than kick and run. Is making the hole bigger really going to be good for the game? So once players are knocking it round in under 80 all the time then try a real golf course and struggle to break 90, are they not going to say sod it and go back to the big holes?

No they are not at school level, they are there to make the game enjoyable and playable for children of that age. The vast majority of 7,8,9 year olds do not play on small pitches to increase their technical ability, they do it so the game is fun and enjoyable for them.

And surely if you can break under 80 just because the hole is bigger then the fundamentals of your game are very sound. You still have the get the ball to the green. If you are breaking 80 you must be getting to most greens just about in regulation, therefore a very decent golfer. So moving to standard holes will be a natural progression

 

[Hacker Khan]

Any idea when they're going to introduce bowling style buffers along the sides of fairways?

If it comes over here it'll only be on courses designed more for beginners, things like this might actually cause folk to regulate themselves to which level of courses they play, so having less fledgling golfers on courses that are too difficult and therefore soul destroying for them at that stage in their golfing career. Problem, I foresee, being that new golfers wouldn't get to play with established golfers very often which could slow their improvement and also knowledge of the rules (of course being an established golfer doesn't make you a rules expert!)

But in reality how many golfers main way of improving is playing with established golfers? Yes I agree they can see how established golfers play. But then again how many established golfers are in a position to actually pass on the correct fundamentals to beginners, how many of them have technically perfect swings, how many of them would you truthfully say, watch and learn from what they are doing?

As for the rules then again playing with some wise old sage who knows every rule is one way of learning them. Or on the other hand they could just read the rule book, or a condensed version of it anyway. Or read the rules sections of the numerous golf mags. If we are saying that the rules of the game are so complicated that someone new really needs to spend time with established players to be able to understand them then that's not a great place for the game to be in.

 

[cookelad]

But in reality how many golfers main way of improving is playing with established golfers? Yes I agree they can see how established golfers play. But then again how many established golfers are in a position to actually pass on the correct fundamentals to beginners, how many of them have technically perfect swings, how many of them would you truthfully say, watch and learn from what they are doing?

As for the rules then again playing with some wise old sage who knows every rule is one way of learning them. Or on the other hand they could just read the rule book, or a condensed version of it anyway. Or read the rules sections of the numerous golf mags. If we are saying that the rules of the game are so complicated that someone new really needs to spend time with established players to be able to understand them then that's not a great place for the game to be in.

Can only talk from experience, I played a lot of golf with good/established golfers growing up and I can't help but think it helped me, you never know I might be better now had I not!

As for the rules, I think the rules sections in the mags and the rules forum on here are good ways to get to know the rules but I like to learn by experience it sticks in my mind easier! We all know the rules are complicated and often seemingly overly so, but they've evolved over years as situations have arisen I doubt someone sat down and thought "right we've got this nice simple game hitting a ball with a stick with the aim of getting the ball into a hole, now let's make it so only those with a law degree can understand the rules!"

Anyway 15" holes hopefully can be a good thing but might have to be part of a plan rather than the hole (see what I did there) plan!

 

[MadAdey]

No they are not at school level, they are there to make the game enjoyable and playable for children of that age. The vast majority of 7,8,9 year olds do not play on small pitches to increase their technical ability, they do it so the game is fun and enjoyable for them.

On the continent they use reduced sized pitches and goals until an older age. By using a small pitch and small goals it removes the abilities to just kick it and see who gets there first, or just knock it past someone and run like hell. The small pitch actually encourages players to have a better first touch and move without the ball as there is no room to just kick and run. IT is not to make it easier, if anything the small pitches make it harder.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

People on here commenting that golf is not attracting new players.
I think the problem is that we are not retaining existing players.
Slow players being the major barrier.

2.5 to 3 hours a round in the 50's,60's and early 70's.
3 to 3.5 hours in the later 70's, 80's.
3.5 to 4.5 hours in the 90's
4.5 to 5 hours in the 00's
5 hours plus in the 10's.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the size of the hole.