Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
OK I've missed it
Re-educate me
Re-educate me
1 Oct 2012 - Government change rules again on age discrimination for golf clubs!
- Thread starter ian.cook
- Start date
Read back through and see if you can spot the reasoning,go on try it and maybe take the selfish me me me glasses off as it may enable you to spot it.
It is not about individuals but club longevity.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
No point in continuing this - you've got your view and I've got mine and they don't meet in the middle.
I'll leave you with this one...
If I came up to you, as Golf Club Sec, and said "Sorry Allan, I can't afford 1200 quid this year. Can I pay 700 instead"
What would your reaction be.......?
I'll leave you with this one...
If I came up to you, as Golf Club Sec, and said "Sorry Allan, I can't afford 1200 quid this year. Can I pay 700 instead"
What would your reaction be.......?
No,as I'll fill your space no problem thanks.Filling my membership with your bracket of age isn't a problem but if your 25 year old son wants to join for £500 then here's the application form.Meanwhile can I interest you in monthly Direct Debit?If not I wish you happy shopping with the wife.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
the real issue for me with this argument is that the 20-30 group has been the most under represented group within golf club membership for a long time now, and no account is taken of their involvement to the game from within corporate and other organised society structures or municipal course play.
having them in a club at a lower price doesn't really change the underlying dynamics at all ie the future won't change as a result if it for an individual club, or clubs as a whole.
the only thing that will change that equation is introducing more people overall to the game, and the obvious focus is on introducing both juniors and newly retired individuals to this great sport.
stevie_r
Tour Winner
I'm sorry but I just don't see why I should pay more and subsidise someone under 30. The argument that I must be earning shed loads more than someone in their 20s is utter poppycock. If they want to play then they should pay, if they don't want to pay the money then fine, find another hobby, it isn't a difficult concept.
If the issue is money then how about all members are means tested and pay accordingly? I'm fairly certain that given the amount of redundancy that has happened in the last few years that a fair number of the cash cow age group have had to give up the game. What financial incentive was offered to these people to encourage them to stay?
Reductions for OAPs as a reward for years of loyalty to a club I can accept but obviously this is a matter for the whole membership to vote on.
If the issue is money then how about all members are means tested and pay accordingly? I'm fairly certain that given the amount of redundancy that has happened in the last few years that a fair number of the cash cow age group have had to give up the game. What financial incentive was offered to these people to encourage them to stay?
Reductions for OAPs as a reward for years of loyalty to a club I can accept but obviously this is a matter for the whole membership to vote on.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
So my 700 quid is worth less than a 25 year old's 500 quid.
It may be legal but it's wrong......
Cherry13
Head Pro
Hi all, first time poster here....
I'm new (relatively) to the game and this thread really caught my attention due to my recent experience.
In my opinion this is surely an issue of supply and demand, I am extremely fortunate at this moment in time I have a reasonable amount of disposable income, therefore i am able to try a new hobby and spend a lot of money on this game.
I mention supply and demand above because as with most businesses (surely a club needs to treat itself as such to survive and prosper) at the moment some clubs are struggling and need to start attracting new business, one way of doing this is through a younger clientele. Notice now this is being done throughout the industry, Puma with Rickie Fowler etc to name an example.
I feel that with parts of the industry targeting a younger clientele clubs are wise to try and jump on the back of this and also entice these potential members, the easiest way to entice new members is financially, particularly at this moment in time. (areas like slow play, and equipment debates are for a different time and thread)
For some of the bigger clubs charging over £1000pa is not an issue, they will still fill there ranks, however for some smaller clubs (mine included) they have to look at measures of enticing, I am fortunate in that I fell into a discounted wage bracket at my club when this goes up i will continue to still be a member albeit via a monthly Direct Debit. This however wont be possible for a playing partner due to his current circumstance, (i hope he can find some way to continue as he is an easy £2...)
As i mentioned earlier it is to the younger audience where most of the enticement seems to be aimed, if it was simple to check if someone was a first time member of ANY club then this would be my preferable way of charging, a discounted first 5 years for example might be best.
For clubs and the game of golf to continue it must look at bringing through more recreational golfers, i believe many driving ranges are doing a decent job at this and when you visit the driving range you will generally find a much younger crowd, which is very promising as hopefully this may spill over to the clubs eventually, however this wont be possible without enticing these people in some way.
I'm new (relatively) to the game and this thread really caught my attention due to my recent experience.
In my opinion this is surely an issue of supply and demand, I am extremely fortunate at this moment in time I have a reasonable amount of disposable income, therefore i am able to try a new hobby and spend a lot of money on this game.
I mention supply and demand above because as with most businesses (surely a club needs to treat itself as such to survive and prosper) at the moment some clubs are struggling and need to start attracting new business, one way of doing this is through a younger clientele. Notice now this is being done throughout the industry, Puma with Rickie Fowler etc to name an example.
I feel that with parts of the industry targeting a younger clientele clubs are wise to try and jump on the back of this and also entice these potential members, the easiest way to entice new members is financially, particularly at this moment in time. (areas like slow play, and equipment debates are for a different time and thread)
For some of the bigger clubs charging over £1000pa is not an issue, they will still fill there ranks, however for some smaller clubs (mine included) they have to look at measures of enticing, I am fortunate in that I fell into a discounted wage bracket at my club when this goes up i will continue to still be a member albeit via a monthly Direct Debit. This however wont be possible for a playing partner due to his current circumstance, (i hope he can find some way to continue as he is an easy £2...)
As i mentioned earlier it is to the younger audience where most of the enticement seems to be aimed, if it was simple to check if someone was a first time member of ANY club then this would be my preferable way of charging, a discounted first 5 years for example might be best.
For clubs and the game of golf to continue it must look at bringing through more recreational golfers, i believe many driving ranges are doing a decent job at this and when you visit the driving range you will generally find a much younger crowd, which is very promising as hopefully this may spill over to the clubs eventually, however this wont be possible without enticing these people in some way.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Not been able to reply to this since my last post but seems I don't need to because, as usual it seems, I agree with Imurg.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
It may be wrong, but unfortunately it's something which has been in place at many golf clubs for a while and if it were removed could be pretty detrimental to a club's takings. If you lose fifty 18-30 year olds paying an average of 1000, the club has got to find and extra £50k from the rest of its members.
I know I'm in the minority on here as I'm actually in that age bracket, and I know there's not going to be an easy agreement, but if as someone mentioned on earlier, all the 18-30 year olds that can't afford membership should give up the game, it wouldn't solve a clubs financial problems.
I genuinely believe that the if the fees rise to full membership the year after you've finished being a junior then 75% of the people I know and have met would not have continued golf into their 20's, which would be a shame. Especially as everyone is always whinging about clubs getting old and stuffy.
Like I said, there's not going to be a general agreement, and I don't expect (nor should you) anyone to say, "you know what, you're right!" ... I just wanted to try and defend those of us in that bracket that without these incremental membership would have been forced to give up a game we'd played throughout our teens.
Cherry13
Head Pro
Hey, first time poster here...
Decided to choose this thread as my first as its something that has really affected me over the last few months.
I don't particularly see the issue for clubs being age, surely this is more just supply and demand?? Clubs need to fill the numbers and to do this they must attract new members to survive, whether that be older members or younger members. Unfortunately for clubs once an individual becomes a member elsewhere they are unlikely to change and therefore become a member of another club, so attracting new members must be done through newcomers to the game or returnees. (surely the most common means is newcomers)
Now newcomers to the game wont necessarily be the younger age bracket (juniors up till about the age of 24), I personally feel that someone who is introducing themselves to the game will probably do this in there mid/late 20's to early 30's as other sports become less and less attractive to continue to partake in, this was certainly the case for myself. Anyone who was introduced to the game via a parent or relative will probably have been done so at a junior age, and will be a member of the same club. so again the demand pool is reduced for clubs.
As this is the case, this is where clubs offer the discounted rates as a way of enticing members into there clubs. The easiest way to ensure they are attracting new clientele is through age brackets, however I personally feel clubs should perhaps offer a discounted rate to 'newcomers' to the sport and first time members, perhaps for five years.
Also just a quick point to add, over the last decade or so golf has increasingly tried to market itself at a much younger market, Tiger/Nike and now to some extent people like Rickie Fowler and Puma, (and with rumours of red bull interested in a part) Clubs really need to take advantage of this and utilize the millions being invested by these companies and jumping on the bandwagon.
Decided to choose this thread as my first as its something that has really affected me over the last few months.
I don't particularly see the issue for clubs being age, surely this is more just supply and demand?? Clubs need to fill the numbers and to do this they must attract new members to survive, whether that be older members or younger members. Unfortunately for clubs once an individual becomes a member elsewhere they are unlikely to change and therefore become a member of another club, so attracting new members must be done through newcomers to the game or returnees. (surely the most common means is newcomers)
Now newcomers to the game wont necessarily be the younger age bracket (juniors up till about the age of 24), I personally feel that someone who is introducing themselves to the game will probably do this in there mid/late 20's to early 30's as other sports become less and less attractive to continue to partake in, this was certainly the case for myself. Anyone who was introduced to the game via a parent or relative will probably have been done so at a junior age, and will be a member of the same club. so again the demand pool is reduced for clubs.
As this is the case, this is where clubs offer the discounted rates as a way of enticing members into there clubs. The easiest way to ensure they are attracting new clientele is through age brackets, however I personally feel clubs should perhaps offer a discounted rate to 'newcomers' to the sport and first time members, perhaps for five years.
Also just a quick point to add, over the last decade or so golf has increasingly tried to market itself at a much younger market, Tiger/Nike and now to some extent people like Rickie Fowler and Puma, (and with rumours of red bull interested in a part) Clubs really need to take advantage of this and utilize the millions being invested by these companies and jumping on the bandwagon.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Maybe the £50K would be made up by those mid thirty somethings who can't afford the full rate? I know I would have joined earlier if I got a discount and I have a couple of mates who would join if the fees weren't so high.
I can kind of understand juniors getting staggered rises in fee when they stop being juniors but should that privilege be given to those who weren't juniors at that club just because they are in their twenties?
The other thing that doesn't make sense is twenty somethings are very likely to quite quickly buy a house, get married and have kids and will likely not have the time or money to keep their membership going regardless of the rate. Those in their mid forties on the other hand who's kids are likely just going to Uni or leaving home may have time on their hands but not necessarily the money due to supporting kids through uni? These guys could do with a discount and just as much as the twenty somethings and will probably have more longevity at the club.
Of course, those scenarios don't fit everyone in the 20 or 40 age groups but I guess that's the point, not everyone in their twenties needs a discount, and not everyone in their thirties and forties can afford the full fee. Giving discounts to twenty somethings because of their age doesn't guarantee they'll stay at the club for twenty years, it's flawed logic in my view. If they want to give discounts it should be means tested not based purely on age.
